Beastmen Wish-listing

[cosy]

No way they should return to Beast of Chaos, it was not even an army book it was an addition to Hordes of Chaos. No Marks! I just can't picture Tzeentch/Slaaneshi Bestigors and Minotaurs

Also I like the new fluff, all the dung-smearing and pure destruction gives them a clear personality. I love the story behind their hatred for Mankind. They should however delve more deeply in the Secret War with the Wood Elves, have an extensive love-hate partnership with the Chaos Warriors (not Daemons) and have some fluff about their quarrels with other denizens of the forrest (Forrest Goblins, Vampire Counts, etc)

Rule wise I agree with most what has been said here (cheaper rares, etc) but i still miss some wakier stuff in that army like what the Vampire Counts received.

Almost forgot, a unit of supa-Tuskgors (Razorgors) feels kinda lazy to me, there is more interesting stuff to make then that imo.

[TsukeFox]

Return of the Chaos Gods to the fluff!!

New razorgor model, but not in 3+ years, NOW! And plastic chariots, harpies and centigors.

Models for all characters. Slugtongue and Taurox would be very nice models...

As for the rules, I think the current book is quite fine, just re-thinking the big beasties (rules and point cost) and making the lore useful would be prefect for me.

Come on we all know that the mighty Pumagore is going to be finecash!

2nd the return of Chaos Gods! Marks for everyone !!-well Tzeentch for wizards only.

At this point Beastman are nothing more but wild animals-how could GW ignore their past ??

More character sculpts !! Plastic character kits like the o&G and empire general/ BSB kits (for Tomb Kings as well!!)
Might as well make Centigor monstrous beast like the new Bull Centaurs= awesome model!

[Malagor]

Yes, but the user Malagor made a clear distinction between "unit" and "model", and hence my confusion.

Model, the one you buy from the store
Unit, what you pay for with points.

[Andy p]

Im really hoping that when something is eventually done for beastmen, they keep the ability to take an entire centigor army and maybe even bring back having a minotaur army.

One of the things I love most about Fantasy are those special characters or just lord options that let you make unusual but entertaining themed armies. Like brets and the pegasus lord meaning an RAF list. Or Skragg and lotsa gorgers, (although this one has remained it has changed somewhat).

[Malagor]

At this point Beastman are nothing more but wild animals-how could GW ignore their past ??

Out of all the armies, this was the aspect that attracted me to the beastmen, that and they got some really sweet models.
I liked that they are dung-smearing, drunken orgy brutes that just beats anything remotely pretty to dust

[TheDungen]

cept today they're just brown orcs.

[Rosstifer]

cept today they're just brown orcs.

In what way exactly?

[mrtn]

In the same way as dark elves are just purple high elves, and dwarves are just bearded empire, I'd imagine.

[TheDungen]

Cause theyre two sizes of regular creatures a little tougher than humans backed up by larger monsters and a few really large monsters.
Goblins are ungors
Orcs are gors
Black orcs are beastigors
trolls are minotaurs
Giants are Ghorgons
Chariots are chariots.
So the only missing thing is warmachines and cavalry.
The only things that beastmen have that are unique to them are centigors and ambush, which no one uses. So bring back the mixed units. And bring back semi skirmishers. And make ambush useful. In short as I said earlier bring back the Germanic tribe influences.

[mrtn]

On the other hand
ungor raiders are not goblin skirmishers
Primal Fury is not Animosity
Blood Greed is not Stupidity
Centigors are not boar boyz
Razorgors are not trolls
the shard of the herdstone is not a mushroom
Chaos warhounds are not wolf riders
Doombulls are not troll characters
neither are gorebulls
Harpies are not flying goblins
chaos spawn are not trolls either
jabberslythe are not wyverns
cygors are not giants
giants can't be giants, because you said that ghorgons were.

So yes, you have a very very very superficial point, but the armies are not (IMNSHO) alike and doesn't play alike. I trust in Primal Fury to take me through a fight, how many orc generals trust in Animosity?

BTW, did you notice that Lizardmen are just blue orcs? They've got big and small models too, so there can't be any difference, can there?

[Malagor]

Also how can Ghorgon be a giant when Beastmen have the actual giant as well ?

[Ultimate Life Form]

No way they should return to Beast of Chaos, it was not even an army book it was an addition to Hordes of Chaos. No Marks! I just can't picture Tzeentch/Slaaneshi Bestigors and Minotaurs

Funny thing, until very recently that was a very common phenomenon. I have the BoC book and it shows even pictures of them. I can post them if you have trouble imagining it.

Also I like the new fluff, all the dung-smearing and pure destruction gives them a clear personality.

??? I would argue that at the moment Beastmen are mainly characterized by a clear absence of any form of personality.

I love the story behind their hatred for Mankind. They should however delve more deeply in the Secret War with the Wood Elves, have an extensive love-hate partnership with the Chaos Warriors (not Daemons) and have some fluff about their quarrels with other denizens of the forrest (Forrest Goblins, Vampire Counts, etc)

You see, that's exactly what we want, too. The current book simply delivers nothing even remotely interesting. It was a big disappointment.

Out of all the armies, this was the aspect that attracted me to the beastmen, that and they got some really sweet models.
I liked that they are dung-smearing, drunken orgy brutes that just beats anything remotely pretty to dust

You can be a follower of Chaos and still do all this stuff. The two are not mutually exclusive. The Chaos addition would simply give them a purpose beyond being hooligans.

cept today they're just brown orcs.

Yeah. For years I had been toying with the thought of starting BoC. With the new book, this project is postponed indefinitely. They took each and all aspects that were even remotely unique or interesting from the army and gave us yet another generic dumb brute army. I'm already building a green orc army; I have no use for brown orcs. I'm building an Ogre army; I have no need for Minotaurs. And both have far better and more interesting Monsters than that Beastmen garbage. So what remains? What has the army to offer that I don't already have? ..............nothing, 'cept one or two decent models. Not enough.

In short as I said earlier bring back the Germanic tribe influences.

Yes please.

[Harwammer]

Core:
Scythes for chariots (including razorgors!).

Free spears as optional upgrade to ungor.

Rank and file ungor can allow ambushed skirmish ungor.

True core hounds.

Special:
i4 Minotaurs, maybe slight points drop. Allow a unit to take a magic banner.

Choice between magic item or gift on Bestigor champion.

Forest strider on Centigor. Maybe fast cav, or allow them to march and shoot, to make throwing axes a little better.

Primal fury on harpies (maybe getting greedy here).

Rare:
Cheaper rares.

Replace Giant with 6th ed Mutant Monstrosity (giant with 5+ armour, and chance to do a fall down attack instead of other chart results. Keep the chomp attack though).

Make all the Ghorgon's attacks KB (6+), but only regains 1 wound per KB (this change replaces their current swap all normal attacks for 1 KB/healing attack).

Make Cygor test against wizard's own Ld (no IP/BSB).

Allow Jabber Ld effect to work against ITP or give it a bonus against unstable/deamon models?

Upgrades for Spawn equivalent to the 6th ed spawn marks (3d6 M, +1S, Poison Attacks or magical flames breath weapon).

[TheDungen]

BoC was frightening, they could be hiding in every bush, and they corrupted the very land they inhabited with herdstones. Any town that lackd in defence would be raided and burnt to the ground. and now they're just some army that travels around and attacks cities. oh and for some reason seems to be more interested in defacing statues than killing peasants.

Oh and did i mention they dont seem to serve chaos anymore?

[Harwammer]

Oh and did i mention they dont seem to serve chaos anymore?

Anyone who has actually read the fluff section of the current army book can tell you that is tripe.


To dig up an old post on the subject:

However, as hinted above, I still consider Bm a chaos army. Fluff wise they are still totally in league with chaos and even receive units and gifts explicitly denoted as chaos. You'll notice model-wise there are lots of horned variants of the chaos star: fluff, rules and models all chaos aligned.

(pg3)
"INTRODUCTION
The Beastmen are the true Children of Chaos"
"So profound is the Beastmen's hatred of order and reason that they seek to drag the world kicking and screaming into a barbaric and primal age"
"The terrible profanities they commit in honour of the ancient, thirsting gods they worship"
"Gifts of Chaos your mighty characters can receive should Chaos judge them Worthy"

Pretty explicit they are chaos there... Let's look at page 6
"ORIGINS OF THE BEASTMEN
Beastmen willingly embrace their heritage of Chaos... For since the birth of their race they have belonged body and soul to the Ruinous Powers."
"They are not creatures of nature ... They are a twisted product of Chaos... Belong to Chaos as fully and completely as a shark belongs to water".
"Chaos... Chaos ... Chaos... Chaos...Chaos ... Thus was the race of Beastmen born into the world"

There's also a little box on the page concerning:
"THE REALM OF CHAOS"
"Though born of Chaos, they are native to the forests"

Basically the entire book continues thus, I don't really see how you can argue Beastmen aren't Chaos when it is so incredibly/repeatedly explicit! Indeed the fluff even gives shout outs to the Gods, such as, "By the power of the being Man names Nurgle, the Beastmen are enamoured of such foulness, for that which doesn't kill them makes them stronger".

[ivan55599]

I couldn't resist, but this sums my feelings:

[Ultimate Life Form]

Just hiding a few references to Chaos somewhere in the book is not enough. Pretty much all books have those.

What if they strip everything away from Warriors of Chaos and just leave them with a few naked barbarians?!? I can't even begin to imagine the outrage! No one would even dare proposing such changes! But wait, the book says that "some Norscans like to pledge their souls to Nurgle", and the "Hung worship Slaanesh" and "there are a few Chaos cultists in the Empire". Great! That's exactly how fans imagine the perfect army book! But strangely for Beastmen everyone seems to think it's okay. It just really only shows how much the army is hated by everyone, beginning with the citizens of the old world to the game developers, the gamers and even the "fans" themselves! It truly is a sad sight.

[Harwammer]

Just hiding a few references to Chaos somewhere in the book is not enough. Pretty much all books have those.

Well it's a good job that the references to chaos are more than hidden. They are explicit and repeated. I've already posted a selection of quotes from the current book. To say those (and the ones i skipped) are 'a few hidden references' seems somewhat obtuse or ignorant.

It's really not a case of 'a few worship Nurgle'. They were created by chaos, are empowered by the gods, hate order, embrace chaos, commit profanities in of it.

Maybe there isn't as strong a focus on the pantheon worshiped by the northern tribes as some would like, BUT to say beastmen don't follow chaos or the book doesn't acknowledge this is objectively false.

[Jind_Singh]

I liked the fluff in the latest book! I would like see some points reductions for the rares, some new units, a big tasty plastic kit!

More models is a must - don't know why they didn't do plastic chariots and have one with the army box!

Would love options to field more themed lists - like minos only - and I want pesitigor models back!!!

[Ultimate Life Form]

Well it's a good job that the references to chaos are more than hidden. They are explicit and repeated. I've already posted a selection of quotes from the current book. To say those (and the ones i skipped) are 'a few hidden references' seems somewhat obtuse or ignorant.

Well, believe it or not, I like to read my army books. I know very well what's written there. Recently, I started flicking through the book again. I had cloudy memories of some Chaos background being in there and wanted to review it. However I didn't have the time to read the whole thing again. What I did during the last week repeatedly was flicking through the book desperately skimming it for mention of some Chaos thing or another. I didn't find quite a lot (so I'm actually grateful for your list). Instead the most prominent words that sprung to my eyes on literally every page were 'hate everything', 'dung' and 'defecate'. It's truly horrible writing. So yes, I would argue that the Chaos aspect of the Beastmen is virtually hidden beneath a very thick layer of dung.