HH Chronology?

[Aryllon]

Hey guys

I've been meaning to read the Heresy novels for some time, but having looked on GW website there's no clear logical order for them.

Can anyone tell me / post a link which shows the chronology of the books so I can read them in proper order?
I'm anticipating there may be a bunch which overlap, but nontheless...

[narrativium]

There are overlaps, and a few deliberate contradictions, but generally the best order to read them is in release order, not chronological. Quite a few of the books precede the actual Heresy by years or decades, but Horus Rising is still the best place to begin.

[Melchiah]

Only the first 3 books are in actual order

[Lupe]

The order they were released in is still the best way to do read the series, in my opinion.

Especially since some arcs (i.e, the Dark Angels, the Word Bearers) are deliberately spaced out for the idea of time to sink in better.

Plus, if you read them in the correct order, you'll have some rather average character development early on (i.e Erebus, the Lion, most World Eaters) and then be pleasantly surprised as the same sides are getting a far better depiction. If you were to cherry pick books, chances are you'd get the good ones early on, and then be disappointed later by the earlier stuff that isn't actually bad, but just wasn't as fleshed out at the time...

[Sqallum]

I agree with Lupe on this. For example, I read The First Heretic and most of the other books. Then I got Battle For The Abyss. My signature shows the opinion of one person on that book. It is actually O.K, but it just is not as good as say, TFH.
Hope this helps

[Hulkster]

I would say read them in release order, but there is no harm in missing out Battle for the Abyss really. It is a terrible terrible terrible book.

[Nazguire]

Battle of the Abyss is referenced a few times after the novel, so it's still good to pick up, if just for a bit of extra reading if nothing else.

[boogle]

The 1st books chronologically is Descent of Angels, then The First Heretic

[Dragannia]

From memory it should go...

Descent of Angels first, though the arc branches in with the others. It starts hundreds of years before the events of the heresy IIRC.
The First Heretic and Legion should come next. Can't remember when The First Heretic was, but Legion was two years before the heresy,

The others all seem to intersect. The first four are obviously in chronological order, but Fulgrim occurs concurrently with them. Furious Abyss seems to occur just after the Istavaan slaughter, which would place it just at the end of Fulgrim. The one people have trouble with is Thousand Sons and Outcast Dead, since the warning doesn't seem to match up, but they occur after the Istavaan massacre, and I expect that's just about when Mechanicum occurs too. No idea when Nemesis takes place.

[narrativium]

Mechanicum's prologue, and at least one tale from Tales of Heresy, occur before the Great Crusade.

There is no requirement to read the books in chronological order of their events.

[boogle]

Nemesis is post Istvaan, and possibly runs concurrently with the events of The Outcast Dead

[Londinium]

From memory it should go...
Descent of Angels first, though the arc branches in with the others. It starts hundreds of years before the events of the heresy IIRC.
The First Heretic and Legion should come next. Can't remember when The First Heretic was, but Legion was two years before the heresy,

The First Heretic starts fifty years before Istvaan and then weaves it's way in and out of the timeline.

[shadowhawk2008]

Well, DoA can't be "hundreds of years" before the HH. Given how far The Rock is from Terra on the galactic map in Codex: SM 5th, it is quite less than 200 years. The HH happened that amount of time INTO the Great Crusade. I'm using the location of The Rock as a basis because while it is is said to have warp-travel capabilities, the map doesn't make a mention of it traveling across the segmenta, as is the case for the Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Knights of the Raven etc, all fleet-based chapters.

The Rock is also much farther away from Terra, than Fenris is, roughly half the distance more.

The First Heretic starts 50 years before Dropsite Massacre. When it hits the half-point it is just a few weeks at most before that event.

[Aryllon]

Hmmm, so a bit like the three Eldar path books then; three characters experiencing the same events concurrently, but from different perspectives.

I don't mind books overlapping, but don't want to be reading about things that occur after events in other books have finished.

So it sounds like the first two are Descent of Angels then First Heretic? I'm assuming we mean both chronologically AND release order?

[narrativium]

No, because while The First Heretic starts forty years before Horus Rising, it doesn't end before Horus Rising. It continues past the events of that book and the three after that.

What you're suggesting is akin to watching the Back to the Future trilogy in chronological order.

If someone went through every single book - if I include Fear to Tread and Shadows of Treachery, that's eighteen novels, eight novellas, twenty-several short stories and counting - and broke the stories down chapter by chapter you might get a version of the Heresy in chronological order. But if you read each story as a unit before moving onto the next, that's just not possible. And while the Heresy team are focusing more on the Age of Darkness now, that's still no guarantee that they're being chronological.

[Londinium]

Seems like the best place to put this but I've started reading Fear to Tread and something is bugging me about the chronology, which has in earlier books as well. In the old IA chronology there was always an unspecified amount of time between Ullanor and Horus' fall on Davin. I felt this worked well as it gave plenty of time for Horus to serve as Warmaster post the Emperor (20/30 years or whatever) and gain even more respect and experience before ultimately falling. However in the book series there seems to be barely any time between the two.

A minor FTT spoiler here but

We have a scene with Horus just before the Ullanor campaign then the next thing mentioned is that the Blood Angels are involved with the Alpha Legion in mopping up the remnants of the Ullanor campaign, taking one year to do this. Even giving a few years for the Ullanor campaign and a a few years between Ullanor and the Orks setting up camp in the Kayvas sector to fit in Murder and allow the Orks to make their way to Kayvas, that's still only say 5/6 years at max after Ullanor. At the close of the Kayvas Sector campaign, we're switched to a scene set just before the assault on Istvaan III and presumably at the same time as the Kayvas Campaign. Meaning by the conclusion of Kayvas Horus has already fallen a while ago.

From my admittedly scrambled recollection of the HH timeline that would leave something like this:

Sons of Horus: Nephilim fight -> Ullanor -> ? -> False Emperor -> Murder -> Interex -> Horus Fall -> Istvaan
Blood Angels: Nephilim fight -> ? -> Murder -> Kayvas Campaign (Horus Fall just before or concurrent with this) -> Signus Prime

Which doesn't give too much time to play around in.

.

Other books show a similarly short timeline: Horus Rising mentions the Battle against the False Emperor, Murder and the Interex and then Horus falls. Fulgrim basically has the EC leaving Horus around the time of Ullanor and not participating in much other than Laeran and then leaving there straight for Istvaan. In A Thousand Sons, we have Ullanor, Nikaea then the TS sod off back to Prospero and ultimately we have the Battle of Prospero just before Istvaan.

The one unifying theme about the whole fragmented time line to me seems like there is a very short gap (5/6 years or so) between Ullanor and Horus falling on Davin. Now I know the whole background never stated a timeframe but it seems a shame to have the uncorrupted Horus being Warmaster for such a short time (not to mention it makes some things like Fulgrim's legion tutoring the Night Lords hard), so what I was wondering is whether I've missed something here and have my mental time line a little messed up or whether Horus really does fall that quickly (relative to 200 years Crusading beforehand) after Ullanor?

[shadowhawk2008]

It's a flashback scene. I take it you are referring to the one with the Horus/Sanguinius heart-to-heart?

And doesn't Garviel Loken mention in Horus Rising when they all assault 63-19 that he takes the battle-cry "For the Warmaster" for the first time?

[Lupe]

Messed up dates are one of the drawbacks of a series with multiple authors. Trying to establish an actually accurate chronology is kinda like trying to place your finger on a buzz-saw, and then figuring out which tooth cut it - painful and hopeless. You're better off just blocking specific dates from your mind, and just saying there's a few weeks / months / years between events in different books - although the Outcast Dead manages to confuse me even using that logic.

Because, pretty much the only solid facts the Heresy books all agree on is that there was a great crusade, that it was called the Great Crusade (original, ain't it?) and that Astartes took part in it...

Or, you could just accept the inconsistencies as they are, and pretend that there's no reliable accounts whatsoever, due to the fact that they refer to an age so ancient that the details became shrouded in myth and legend. (see this shameless rant of my own, defending inconsistencies in the series)

[Londinium]

Messed up dates are one of the drawbacks of a series with multiple authors. Trying to establish an actually accurate chronology is kinda like trying to place your finger on a buzz-saw, and then figuring out which tooth cut it - painful and hopeless. You're better off just blocking specific dates from your mind, and just saying there's a few weeks / months / years between events in different books - although the Outcast Dead manages to confuse me even using that logic.

Because, pretty much the only solid facts the Heresy books all agree on is that there was a great crusade, that it was called the Great Crusade (original, ain't it?) and that Astartes took part in it...

Or, you could just accept the inconsistencies as they are, and pretend that there's no reliable accounts whatsoever, due to the fact that they refer to an age so ancient that the details became shrouded in myth and legend. (see this shameless rant of my own, defending inconsistencies in the series)

Just makes me wonder why they don't create a database with all dates mentioned in the novels, it would be a relatively simple thing to do. Keep it open and any authors working on stuff can edit in new dates as they write new stuff. Then you can keep the timelines all synched up. That wasn't really my problem though, I was just curious as to whether under the new continuity Horus really does fall that soon. It barely gives him any time to solidify himself as Warmaster before falling. It's been an absolute age since I read Horus Rising, so I couldn't remember if it was mentioned in there but according to Shadowhawk it is indeed referred. I just feel it's a bit of a missed opportunity condensing the time Horus spends as an uncorrupted Warmaster but que sera, it is what it is. Back to reading FTT, which I'm enjoying immensely.

[khirsath]

I agree that Horus doesn't spend enough time as warmaster before his fall. What really bugs me is how little time there appears to be between Davin and Isstvaan. He should have had decades of manipulations to lure his brothers to his cause and sideline those he could not. Ideally, I would have had Ullanor 2-3 decacades before Davin (it makes Horus near-death more shocking for his legion and the Imperium as a whole) then another 1-2 decades before Isstvaan.

I also have wondered why there doesn't seem to be much of an effort to keep consistency between all the novels. It feels that the control over the greater heresy story has been slipping as the series continues.