Necron Brace Saves

[BDJ]

I recently completed a 1350 point solo BFG game, Imperial Navy Vs Necron. Since this was my first go with Necrons, I was curious to see how the battle would turn out. I actually expected the Necron to win a decisive victory due to their superior movement, weapons, armor, and Brace saves. As it turned out, the IN won the decisive victory, primarily because the Necron splintered with AAF orders, and the Imperials capitalized upon this. You can download a PDF of the battle report (including a few photos) at the following link;

LINK

Win, lose, or draw, something began to bother me during game play about the Necron, particularly the uneven application of the benefits of their Brace save chances between vessel-types. So I chrunched a few numbers after the game to see what was really going on, confirmed the brace save disparities, and decided to offer (and play test) rules modifications to balance this out. Here's the results of my work.

Necron Normal Saves

The Necron Fleet enjoys the benefit of Reactive Armor, which gives them a 6+ armor and grants normal damage saves for each Necron ship-type as follows;

Tombship 4+
Cruisers 5+
Escorts 6+

With the 6+ armor, the chance to actually cause damage to each Necron ship-type is;

Tombship
WBs (1+3)/36 = 11.1%
Lances (3+3)/36 = 16.7%

Cruisers
WBs (1+4)/36 = 13.9%
Lances (3+4)/36 = 19.4%

Escorts
WBs (1+5)/36 = 16.7%
Lances (3+5)/36 = 22.2%

Necron Brace Saves
However, when Braced for Impact, the save goes to 2+ and the armor drops to 4+, producing the following chances to inflict damage;

Tombship
WBs (1+3)/36 = 11.1% No change from un-braced
Lances (1+3)/36 = 11.1% The chance to inflict damage has dropped by 5.6% (16.7%-11.1%=5.6%),
a decrease of 33% (1.0 - 11.1/16.7).

Cruisers
WBs (1+3)/36 = 11.1% The chance to inflict damage has dropped by 2.8% (13.9%-11.1%=2.8%),
a decrease of 20% (1.0 - 11.1/13.9).
Lances (1+3)/36 = 11.1% The chance to inflict damage has dropped by 8.3% (19.4%-11.1%=8.3%),
a decrease of 43% (1.0 - 11.1/19.4)

Escorts
WBs (1+3)/36 = 11.1% The chance to inflict damage has dropped by 5.6% (16.7%-11.1%=5.6%),
a decrease of 33% (1.0 - 11.1/16.7).
Lances (1+3)/36 = 11.1% The chance to inflict damage has dropped by 11.1% (22.2%-11.1%=11.1%),
a decrease of 50% (1.0 - 11.1/22.2)

Please note that the Brace-save over the Reactive Armor-save differences produce a set non-linear benefits, based upon the Necron ship-type. Why should the benefits of Bracing for Impact be more effective for the Cuisers than for the Tombship (Cruiser 20% WB vs Tombship WB No Change and Cruiser 43% Lances vs Tombship 33% Lance), yet less effective than the Escorts (Escort 33% WB vs Cruiser 20% WB and Escort 50% Lances vs Cruiser 43% Lances)? What is it about the escort's size, armor, or whatnots that give it a 33% better Brace save-chance against Weapons Batteries than the Tombship, and a 17% better Brace save-chance against Lances than the Tombship? Inquiring minds would like to know!

A Modified Approach to the Necron Brace Save

The following rules changes are designed to apply the Necron Brace-save in a near-linear fasion so that it affects all Necron ships in a (more) balanced way.

1. Keep the armor for all ships under Brace at 4+.
2. The Brace-save for the Tombship remains at 2+.
3. The Brace-save for the Cruisers is changed to 3+.
4. The Brace-save for the Escorts is changed to 4+.

Implementing these changes yeilds a linear application of the benefits of the Brace-save to all Necron vessel-types.

Tombship
WBs (1+3)/36 = 11.1% No change from un-braced save
Lances (1+3)/36 = 11.1% The chance to inflict damage has dropped by 5.6%,
a decrease of 33%.

Cruisers
WBs (2+3)/36 = 13.9% No change from the un-braced save (same as Tombship).
Lances (2+3)/36 = 13.9% The chance to inflict damage has dropped by 5.6% (same as Tombship),
a decrease of 28%.

Escorts
WBs (3+3)/36 = 16.7% No change from un-braced save (Same as Tombship)
Lances (3+3)/36 = 16.7% The chance to inflict damage has dropped by 5.6% (same as Tombship),
a decrease of 25%.

Under this new scheme, no Necron vessel benefits from Brace against Weapons Batteries. All Necron ships benefit from Brace by a consistent drop of 5.6% against Lances. I will try out these changes during my next Necron game to see how it affects game play.

Any thoughts, suggestions, constructive criticisms are welcomed.

Big Daddy Jim

[Garvey]

My advice... Less math, more gaming!

[horizon]

Escorts are already a lesser choice in a lot of cases. especially vs a Tombship or Scythe, why remove the extra bit they have?

[fracas]

Smaller ships are more simple to brace for impact

[sunnyside]

Well, Necrons are frequently considered OP. Though they seem to be balanced in tournaments (from what I've seen of fleets winning tournaments) because tournaments always play scenarios that last just 6 turns and always base wins on victory points, so the necron disadvantage actually matters. If you play them in missions that last an infinite number of turns or have a win condition like extermanatus their disadvantage doesn't really matter. Also I imagine tourney players might be lance type "hate" for necrons, but that's just speculation on my part.

Aside from that there were some clarifications in FAQ2010

-as normal, their "brace" save has no effect against boarding actions
-they only get their save against hit and run attacks if they actually brace
-while it's actually worded pretty clearly, a lot of people forget that some necron weapon systems actually SHUT DOWN when they lock on as opposed to getting better
-from what I've seen in discussions on fleets for necrons, the escorts aren't actually very popular, so maybe they don't need nerfing. (if anything some other fleet's escorts coud use a buff or tweak, like wide availible of Baka/shadowhunter type flackships so escorts can actually do an escorts job.)
-since they have no shields they're vulnerable to various extra attack types, and they're easy to put a couple hits on vs hitting shields or to persuade them to brace.

Personally, I'd say if you want to nerf 'em I'd say first either try playing 6 turn vp games, or make them bring smaller fleets if you're going to play a mission where their disadvantage doesn't really matter.

[BDJ]

Escorts are already a lesser choice in a lot of cases. especially vs a Tombship or Scythe, why remove the extra bit they have?

Players normally select fleet composition based upon personal playing-style and perceived vessel cost-effectiveness. If Necron players don't include Escorts in their fleets, that's their choice. Changing or altering an Escorts "behavior" won't change that choice. I do include Escorts in my Necron fleet; normally a squadron of five Jackals. That's my choice. But then again, I've only played two games with Necrons, both against Imperials (1 win/1 loss), so I'm just learning. My third game, vs Chaos, is scheduled for this weekend.

However, the purpose of my original post was to identify evident benefits disparities between Necron vessel-types when they go on Brace, and to offer modifications that provide a linear solution to these disparities. These modifications affect both the cruisers and the escorts, and bring them in-line with the benefits the Tombship gains when it Braces. These mods are for personal play-testing.

Smaller ships are more simple to brace for impact

This may be true, but it begs the question. When an attacker targets an escort ship/squadron that has just Braced, his chances of inflicting damage have dropped by 11.1 % ( a decrease of 50% over non-Braced) when attacking with Lances. If the attacker had targeted a Tombship that just Braced, the chances to inflict damage have dropped by 5.6% (a decrease of 33% over non-Brace) when attacking with Lances. Why should an escort be "safer" from Lance attacks than a battleship when it goes from non-Brace to Brace?

That is the disparity that I have identified.

Well, Necrons are frequently considered OP. Though they seem to be balanced in tournaments (from what I've seen of fleets winning tournaments) because tournaments always play scenarios that last just 6 turns and always base wins on victory points, so the necron disadvantage actually matters. If you play them in missions that last an infinite number of turns or have a win condition like extermanatus their disadvantage doesn't really matter. Also I imagine tourney players might be lance type "hate" for necrons, but that's just speculation on my part.

I'm not yet convinced that the Necron are OverPowered. They are a tough nut to crack, but can be defeated. Since I don't play in tournaments, that's not an issue. When I play Necrons, I don't allow an entire fleet to simply "phase out" and disengage before a victor has emerged. The battle simply plays on until there is an evident victor, although the victory may be somewhat "Pyrrhic". That's when I end the game. So you might say that the Necron "victory point' disadvantage is not present in the games I play. Personal preferences and all that.


Thank you all for your comments.

Big Daddy Jim

[fracas]

1. Larger ships are meant for batte and have already optimized itself to receive damages so gain less from bracing
2. Larger ships also have more chance of something going wrong so gain less from bracing


Necrons are vulnerable to boarding

[andrewchristlieb]

Well from a fluff perspective all escorts should be harder to hit with lances anyway. Their smaller size, speed, and manuverability are what would protect them, not any attempts at armoring them and that would make them a harder target to hit with a pinpoint beam weapon. In that case when the order to brace is given I see the navigator punching in a complex evasion routine along with everything else thats going on (blast doors closing, damage response teams mobilizing, people actually grabbing onto some thing , etc...)

I would really have perfered weapons to have had a to hit and to damage roll instead of all rolled into one just for these purposes. Wb should be easier to hit with but harder to damage with and the opposite for lances.

[BDJ]

1. Larger ships are meant for batte and have already optimized itself to receive damages so gain less from bracing
2. Larger ships also have more chance of something going wrong so gain less from bracing


Necrons are vulnerable to boarding

Fracas,

Thanks for these valuable inputs, and I must say that your logic appears sound in this matter. However, except for the Necron, your sound logic doesn't seem to apply to the rest of the BFG fleets. Compare the case of the Terminus Est Battle Barge and the Chaos Infidel Raider. The normal (non-Braced) chance to damage with a Lance is a straight up 50% for either vessel. When each vessel Braces, the chance to damage has dropped by 33% to 16.7 % for both vessels. They both share the same benefit advantage of 33%. This is a true linear application of the benefits of going from non-Braced to Braced. Whether battleship or little escort, both share the same to-damage benefits.

This is not the case with the Necron. The battleship (Cairn Tombship) benefits by a drop of 5.6% when going from non-Braced to Braced, while the escort (Jackal) benefits by a drop of 11.1% when going from non-Braced to Braced. Note that the escort benefit is almost twice that of the battleship!

True, the battleship also has three-or-more shields, while the escort normally has one shield, making the battleship even more difficult to damage, unlike the Tombship vs the Jackal. However, the Brace benefit still remains consistent for 'normal' BFG ship-types.

My attempt to reconcile these disparities is simply an application of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".

And I do agree that the Necron are somewhat vulnerable to boarding, but even more so to Hit&Run, if you can get past the turrets and/or their 2+ Brace-save. A single successful H&R attack can permanently disable some Necron weapon(s) system (Power Disruption) on any score from two-to-five. In point of fact, an H&R score of five completely and permanently disables all Lightning Arc weapons and all Particle Whips. Not too shabby, huh?

Thanks again.

Big Daddy Jim

[andrewchristlieb]

Teleport attacks avoid turrets and just about every race can perform them. If you have torpedoes and assault boats try to attack with both and you will only have to deal with their turrets for one or the other. Don't forget that when braced the majority of the necron weapons systems are disabled also, making the next turn that much easier on you.

[fracas]

Think of it this way
The other fleets are equivalent to necron escorts
But being on the asymptote necron warships (cruisers and battleships) gains are smaller with braces

[BDJ]

Think of it this way
The other fleets are equivalent to necron escorts
But being on the asymptote necron warships (cruisers and battleships) gains are smaller with braces

I did get a little chuckle out of this! But, if you meant this statement seriously, then we'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Big Daddy Jim

[BDJ]

Teleport attacks avoid turrets and just about every race can perform them. If you have torpedoes and assault boats try to attack with both and you will only have to deal with their turrets for one or the other. Don't forget that when braced the majority of the necron weapons systems are disabled also, making the next turn that much easier on you.

Andrew. As usual, good advice. Thanks.

I will be playing a 1350 pt game this Saturday; Chaos Vs Necron. The Chaos fleet includes the Terminus Est Battle Barge (with CSM aboard) and the Repulsive Grand Cruiser, plus a couple of Carnage cruisers and a squadron of six Idolator Raiders (for the Lances). This fleet will attempt to get within 30cm of the Necron main body, and then the Terminus Est will launch nine Assault Boats, while the Repulsive will launch its S6 Prow torpedoes. We'll see how this works out.

Not quite sure what the Necron fleet will do. On my first game, they attempted AAF as a fleet (twice), failed miserably, got splintered (isolated), and were devastated by the IN. The second game, they simply moved forward as a fleet, engaged the IN, the Jackals used AAF to get in the rear of the IN fleet, and gained a solid victory over the Imperials. Maybe I'll try that again. As per norm, my Necron fleet consists of one Cairn, two Scythes, and a squadron of five Jackals.

I will also be using the modified Brace-save rules, where the Necron Tombship Brace-saves on a 2+, the Harvesters Brace-save on a 3+ and the Jackal Escorts Brace-save on a 4+. We'll see how this works out.

Big Daddy Jim