Terrorgheist Death Shriek

[gorblud]

Hey, I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find the thread, I have no idea how to use the search on this forum. I've tried it multiple times but it never leads anywhere, guess I must be doing something wrong.



On page 42 in the rulebook, there is a box called 'Resolving Unusual Attacks'.
There it says to follow step 4, 5 and 6 in the shooting phase (not step 2, which states the restrictions for targeting). It also says that the only exception to this are hits caused by close combat attacks, which is covered in the close combat section.

Attacks made by spells are unusual attacks, and all the restrictions (shooting into/out of combat and such) for spells is mentioned in the magic section of the book.

The Death Shriek specifically states it is a special attack which is used in the shooting phase. This means it is not a shooting attack, nor is it a close combat attack, which leads us to 'Resolving Unusual Attacks'. Also, the Terrorgheist has BS 0 which means it cannot use missile weapons. The attack says wounds are distributed as if from shooting. This does not mean it is a shooting attack, Impact hits are also distributed as if from shooting but I'm pretty sure none claims they are shooting attacks.


Because it is an unusual attack it does not have any targeting restriction besides those mentioned in the attack. The target needs to be in line of sight and within 8". Therefore it can target units engaged in close combat.

[Wesser]

Yeeees...And your point is?

[Moss]

I'll bet he was just confirming that his assumptions are correct. Am I right? I'll bet I am.

[gorblud]

Yep you're right, I remember there were arguments going on on the other thread, just making things clear.

[Lance Tankmen]

well then... tarpit with zombies or skellies and scream em to death? skaven slave tatic...

[gorblud]

sure why not, zombies and skellies can't kill anything on their own

[Lance Tankmen]

fair enough, i wont play it that way but fair enough.

[gorblud]

well, it can do a maximum of 9 wounds against a unit with ld9, thats when rolling double 6's and having all wounds left

[Lance Tankmen]

i play brets, with around 15 max wounds not including characters and my only save being a 6+ hmmm nope. again you put rules together to get this, there shouldnt be a reason to do this, it should say " may be used in close combat that it is not a part of etc" instead its something along the lines of if in close combat can only be used against models its next too. i know some one has done what you've done to reason that it cant be used in close combat, but i forget there arguement. IMHO i firmly think the only reason they put that close combat bit in the text was so you treat it like a breath weapon in CC, but people wanted more and GW has enough holes in their wording for an elephant to slip through. so until theres a FAQ or a tourny decides its legal ill simply pack of my peices and go find another game if the VC player tries to pull it on me. Its not the wounds it can do its the principle of it seeming wrong to me.

[gorblud]

This is what I got out of the rules, If someone were to prove it wrong, then I'd obey by those rule.

But go ahead, ignore it because you don't like it. There are several spells that can wipe out 50man units with a bit of luck, do you ignore those too?

[Lance Tankmen]

no beacause the rules are clear for those, you put this up, not GW or anyone who decides a tournament, why should i play based on how you choose to read the rules? its unclear, so naturally both sides will slide to what they want it to be, but until theres a 100% fact thats how its played i see no reason to use your rules over mine, because maybe your just ignoreing my way of seeing it? if it was clear it could be used in close combat that it isnt apart of we wouldnt be here discussing it, would we?

[xNytmare]

Off the actual topic, but quite related...

Can a character's leadership (character resides in the unit too) be used against the death shriek?

Seems like a good opportunity for me to find this out.

Thanks!

[gorblud]

Yes, the highest leadership in a unit is always used. The general's inspiring presence can be used aswell.

You should play by those rules because they're in the rulebook, I didn't just make them up... I don't know if this was intended by GW, perhaps it will be FAQ'd the other way around.

[Lance Tankmen]

im not saying you made them up, i said you read them the way you wanted to, and as you just stated it could be FAQ'd to be the exact opposite of how you read it, again if i have to choose your uncertain answer over my uncertain answer, ill choose mine and wait til it is answered by GW, or as stated if a tournament i go to decides its one way ill do that but because you can still twist this rule back and forth and people still disagree on its wording, how can your answer for sure be the right one?

[gorblud]

Well, the rules as they are now seems pretty clear to me.

I'm not even sure at what point you're disagreeing with what I wrote?

[Lance Tankmen]

well of course you looked for those rules, and put them up there with no rules to oppose it, again the simple fact of you haveing to do that is enough for me to not think its used in Close combat, it should state it, without a doubt, that it can be used in close combats that it is not a part of. but it only mentions close combat for the attack with models touching it. well sadly im going to have to quit this discusstion because i loaned my BRB to a friend to read up on, and havent a VC book on hand. but fact being neither of us will convince the other, or at least you wont convince me.

[gorblud]

Alright, well like I said, these are the rules, if nothing opposes them then maybe that's the way it should be? putting two rules together is nothing new. Bye bye!

[kefkah]

Lol, its not like this is gonna destroy the game or anything.

I play against terrorgheist, and against my HE he does on average 2 wounds, average roll here, so its not like it is gonna tear apart the game by shooting in close combat.

Having read the page 44 in BRD and vc armybook, it makes sense that it would work this way.

[gorblud]

just to give another example:

The anvil of doom makes unusual attacks aswell, and all the restrictions are mentioned in the entry for it. It cannot target single characters unless they are large target, and it can only target unengaged enemy units (talking about the rune of wrath and ruin). Since no maximum range or line of sight is mentioned, it can fire anywhere besides the restrictions mentioned earlier.

The only restrictions mentioned on the Death Shriek is that it has a maximum range of 8", needs line of sight and if engaged in combat, it can only target a unit it is in base contact with.

[Smogg]

Previous Discussion on the same topic can be found here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...gheist-screams