Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distribution?

  1. #1

    Question What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distribution?

    As part of my ongoing UX & design project “GW In The Digital World“, I’d like to publish here a list of ideas I have for a digital service from Games Workshop.


    Your feedback on these ideas is absolutely invaluable, I’d like to polish and update this page depending on your feedback. Please leave as much detailed feedback as you can, I’ll look and respond to any issues or ideas you raise.


    Ideally - I'd like your comments on the original post, where you can see comments from other users but a discussion here is pretty great too.


    Synopsis:


    The march of technology isn’t slowing down, its speeding up. Although the appeal of Games Workshop products is often the fact that it is analogue, physical, some parts of their offerings could be dramatically updated to embrace the possibilities available to us.


    I’m suggesting that GW would benefit from building an integrated online rules and army building system that would increase sales, increase player retention and fulfil the needs of their players.


    Following a user centred approach I believe the following to be features suitable for the system:


    Army Building


    1. Build multiple lists (able to copy existing armies and then edit them)
    2. Personalised Army Modules. Always take a squad of 5 scouts with a melt gun & a power fist? Make them a named module, add your own name & fluff, drag and drop the module into any army. Share the module with friends so they can use it in their army. Updating the module (say new load outs or fluff) updates every list that uses the module. You could build up a library of as many personalised, bespoke units as you wanted, every time you used them you could update the fluff a little more.
    3. Uncommon Units. Suggestions for armies made of unpopular, therefore surprising units.
    4. Search for Public lists using common tags. Look through other users lists by tag, e.g. "shooty" "assault" fluffy". Add your own tags to your army.
    5. Mark your army as public or private. Public armies can be rated on a scale of 1-5 for things like paint jobs, fluff, interestingness etc.
    6. Is this in stock? Referring to the local store that has been set in your preferences, will let you know if there's a box waiting for you at the local GW.
    7. PDF export. A clear and well presented document with all important information on for tournament organisers or your opponent.
    8. Weirdness Rating. How Unusual is your list? Will it surprise your next opponent? Compares your list to all others across the system & gives you a percentage or a rating.
    9. Simple Interface. Configure your units with a large graphical touch (or mouse) interface. As you tap upgrades or options, they're reflected graphically, points sub total updates etc.
    10. Upload your own pictures. A default is supplied but for extra personalisation points you can upload your own images, these appear next to the unit in your list.
    11. Forum & Sharing Friendly. Lists can be marked public so it's easy to share a unique URL for a list that remains up to date however may changes you make to it.
    12. Popularity charts. Just how many other people are playing armies using that unit? What's the most popular way to config that unit?.
    13. Allies Support. Bought access to multiple codexes? Write your allies in right there inside the army builder. Haven't got access? See a list of codexes that can ally.






    Supporting Features


    1. Opponent finder. Find an opponent based on location (opt in in your profile), Decide venue, points etc. before hand and view each others list.
    2. Micro Payment Article System. Access to older White Dwarf, Codex & Rulebook articles including scenarios, painting guides, battle reports etc. 50p an article. Monetises the huge back catalogue.
    3. New Scenarios & extra missions. Purchased via micro payments, self contained documents you can use in your game. Extra missions would be similar to those recently launched in Imperial Armour Aeronautica. Complete campaigns could be sold in a lump (6 missions, £2.99?) or bought individually. Just like the DLC systems on gaming systems.
    4. Tactical View. A ultra cut down gaming view for use on table. Small enough to display on a single screen so you can leave your iPad or laptop open next to the gaming table and see all relevant rules & stats at a glance.
    5. Local Information. By setting your local store in your preferences, your news feed contains news & events from that store. In addition, independent gaming stores and local gaming clubs could be included in the list.
    6. Famous Lists. Lists by famous GW staff & contributors along with the fluff and stories that go with them. Add the list to your own lists, copy it, adapt it. How about a Nightlords list put together by Adam Dembski-Bowden or a Chaos Cultist list with the fluff written by Dan Abnett? Want to add a Gaunt's Ghosts Imperial Guard insertion team to your list, copy it straight from Dan's.
    7. One click purchase of all units in a list. Delivered to your local store (as set in your profile) or delivered to your door.
    8. Where's my nearest dealer? Next to the "buy me" button, utilising the HTML geo location functionality, calculates your location and tells you the nearest stockist.
    9. Twitter & FB integration. Finished an army and want to tell someone? Hit share.
    10. Regular freebies. Rewards for being a subscriber. Painting guides, fluff stories "From The Vault" WD articles.
    11. Exclusive content. Subscriber exclusive content
    12. Early Pre order (& delivery) opportunities More rewards for subscribing & being a member.
    13. Cheaper event tickets. For example Games Day, painting events at GW Nottingham.
    14. Easier to test out niche rules. Easy to write & publish a tiny mini codex - maybe something for the Demiurg - half the fluff and unit choices of a regular codex, half the price.
    15. Leagues. Everything from running your own 2 man league to the national yearly leagues. Tools to incorporate missions, branching story lines, reminders of games you need to play, messaging opponents and maps presented in a similar way to mighty empires.
    16. Actual FAQs. Ever get the feeling that the FAQs aren't the ones you would ask?
    17. Paint scheme modeller. Simple 3d tool that let's you 'paint' your own colour choices onto 3d renders of units. Build a library of units you have painted, export or print top, side, above, angled views so you can use them during painting.






    Technical


    1. Responsive HTML. A Single design that reflows content to fit mobiles, tablets, desktops, TVs, consoles etc.
    2. "Retina" screen compatible. High definition art assets that look fantastic on the new tablets & laptops.
    3. Linked to Flickr. New images automatically appear in the news feed.
    4. Linked to You Tube. New videos from GW will automatically appear in the news feed. YouTube videos should have comments enabled by default.
    5. Parental controls. Under 18? You can't use the game match feature or in app purchases.
    6. Moderated discussion forums. Quite a number of GW users don;t use forums, in fact only the dedicated do which is how they often don't represent most GW customers.
    7. Existing GW store accounts. Email all users and say - hello, you have access.






    Payment?


    1. Monthly. All you can eat, per game system (40K, Fantasy, LOTR). No charge when a new codex, or supporting book is released.
    2. One off cost per book. (codex / army book / publication) Unlimited access until the next one is released.
    3. Per book, per month.
    4. Xbox Live Style. Free to use, paid to access premium features. Books & downloads charged per unit (just like games & DLC). Paid subscribers also get regular freebies, every month if not more.




    General points


    1. Digital is happening now. Not next week, or next year. Today. The question is being proactive or reactive. Fans of GW products have already created versions of most of the solutions listed above because GW left a vacuum.
    2. This is not GW Books distributed on the internet. It's a total paradigm shift. The current GW publishing model is the shape it is because you can't update a codex you shipped 6 years ago, you can;t put a hyperlink inside a quick reference chart linking to a full rules explanation. Things can happen differently, in a more frictionless way, gamers can be happier and more empowered.
    3. Piracy will happen. There again, it already does happen. A PDF of every new codex is available within hours of release. Some people will never pay for content, however if the barriers are low enough, most of them will.
    4. Timely updates of content. Paying for a subscription or service should be rewarded by being respected, listened to and serviced on time. No waiting weeks for a change to a sentence. This also helps with piracy, old content would be out of date and not valid.
    5. Low Barriers for Entry. If you make it cheap & easier than pirating, people will use the service (Spotify, itunes, Love Film, Netflix, Kindle, IOS, Xbox Live)
    6. No separation of fluff and rules. GW Don't see the rules & the fluff as separable, that's why you can't buy a cut down 40K rulebook (I know one comes in the 40K box set, but that also comes with a fluff book). There would not be a cheaper "Rules Only" option.




    As I said - any feedback is great, I'd really like to polish this list some more.

  2. #2

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsugaku View Post
    3. Piracy will happen. There again, it already does happen. A PDF of every new codex is available within hours of release. Some people will never pay for content, however if the barriers are low enough, most of them will.

    5. Low Barriers for Entry. If you make it cheap & easier than pirating, people will use the service (Spotify, itunes, Love Film, Netflix, Kindle, IOS, Xbox Live)

    What's your source for these? I'd imagine that most people who pirate it wouldn't buy it unless it was free. That's why DRM exists unfortunately.

    Spotify is a good example, itunes is not. Love film and netflix are reasonable suggestions though you don't actually own the content on there, kindle is somewhat drm strong, xbox live is a terrible example unless you like the horrible service they actually provide.

    Basically, you need sources. Lots and lots of them.

  3. #3

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Kijamon View Post
    What's your source for these? I'd imagine that most people who pirate it wouldn't buy it unless it was free. That's why DRM exists unfortunately.

    Spotify is a good example, itunes is not. Love film and netflix are reasonable suggestions though you don't actually own the content on there, kindle is somewhat drm strong, xbox live is a terrible example unless you like the horrible service they actually provide.

    Basically, you need sources. Lots and lots of them.
    Well they're mainly from my brains and being in the industry for 12 years

    Itunes is a huge success, so is Spotify - so, if you look at the profits Microsoft makes, is Xbox Live.

    Im not sure your point on DRM? Some people definately won't buy, whatever the price no - but they aren't the target market are they? Don't sell to people who will never buy

    I am in fact suggesting that one off the payment models would be, effectively renting the same way you do with Spotify and love film - set rate per month, unlimited access to all of the tools I described above as well as all codexes / army books.

    This could sit happily next to a stripped down access method where you pay for a single book, and get access to some of the tools above, it's valid until the next codex comes out.

    All constructive feedback gratefully received.

  4. #4
    Chapter Master Yodhrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Corner of No and Where.
    Posts
    1,740

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    No. No, and No.

    Micropayments are TERRIBLE value for the consumer, and it's bad enough that every new MMO that's proposed has latched on to that awful system; I'll put up with GW's price rises, I'll put up with their rumour lockdowns, I'll even put up with Matt Ward because, on balance, I like the product enough. The minute they start screwing us with micropayments, they can kiss my money goodbye, because I point-blank refuse to support a company that will use a payment methodology which is designed SOLELY to exploit psychological trickery in order to wring money out of it's customer base. I also point-blank refuse to support a company that charges me money for a product, and then insists that it's actually a service and they reserve the right to remove my access to what I have paid for.

  5. #5

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    So that's a no then?

    Have you ever bought any DLC for any games or apps on your phone by any chance? Have you ever used any subscription services like Spotify or Netflix? Do you like those or dislike them?

    Would you ever pay for digital content? What do you think is a valid price for, maybe a scenario or an old painting guide from WD you didn't have?

    Getting an idea of other peoples opinions is hugely useful and helps me evolve the proposals.

  6. #6

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Ooo and quickly, if they are such terrible value, why do people keep paying for them?

  7. #7

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsugaku View Post
    Well they're mainly from my brains and being in the industry for 12 years
    Sorry but this won't wash with any project. You can't be your own source of information. Unless your project is just a giant opinion piece in which case it's no better than a blog.

    If you want to produce something to show to GW and say "LOOK AT THIS!" then you need proof. Research piracy legislation, prove your points. Make a straw poll on here. The more evidence you can gather the better. I'm a bird surveyor. If I go to the RSPB and say "I've seen a lot of ravens this year, they must be doing well" they won't take my word for it, will they?

    Also to say "well if they won't buy, don't try" shows a real lack of understanding of piracy and DRM. If GW produce a program or system that isn't 100% hack proof then what's to stop you uploading the program or your pdf on a tablet and rocking up to your local GW and playing with it? It'll spread like a plague. At least right now if I turn up with a pdf on my tablet or with photocopied sheets they can single me out within seconds and horse me out of the shop. How can they prove my cracked PDF or system that they themselves produce is legit?

    Right now people still need to buy and bring their books to tournaments and events, especially GW ones. So while people own pdf copies of the rules and codexes they still need to own a copy to take to events. That's a pretty foolproof system.

    Don't get me wrong here, I fully support the idea of GW producing a system like one you mention. However, they simply don't have the money, time or control they would expect to organise the project. If all you say is "Do this, it'll be great because I've got 12 years of industry experience" it won't convince them.

    Edit to add: I really like the format and tone of your piece, keep working on it. You have the majority of it there.
    Last edited by Kijamon; 23-07-2012 at 20:50.

  8. #8
    Chapter Master Yodhrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Corner of No and Where.
    Posts
    1,740

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsugaku View Post
    So that's a no then?

    Have you ever bought any DLC for any games or apps on your phone by any chance? Have you ever used any subscription services like Spotify or Netflix? Do you like those or dislike them?

    Would you ever pay for digital content? What do you think is a valid price for, maybe a scenario or an old painting guide from WD you didn't have?

    Getting an idea of other peoples opinions is hugely useful and helps me evolve the proposals.
    I do not use subscription based payment systems unless they are actually for a service, such as internet access or a phone line, and on occasion for MMORPGs. I refuse to play Free2Play MMOs, and I have left every MMO which I had been subscribing to which went F2P. I will pay for digital products ONLY in the event that I am provided with a DRM-free copy of whatever it is I am paying for, which I can then back-up, print-off, or otherwise alter as I see fit under the constraints of Fair Use(ie, when the company acknowledges they have sold me a product, not rented me access to it). I have a smartphone only because buying one was cheaper than buying a mobile phone and a digital camera separately, and I have not yet purchased any apps for it as they all fail to meet the previous condition. I try to avoid buying DLC as much as possible, as it's a ripoff compared to the system game developers used to use(expansion packs), I wait until they make an "ultimate" or "game of the year" edition available as a physical product.

    As for GW digital products, I would not purchase anything along the lines you describe, because I can guarantee that the price would not be proportionate, they would want at least a couple of pounds for a single article, when that article was original published in a full magazine which cost only slightly more. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Luddite(quite the reverse), but technology is being abused by businesses in order to undermine consumer rights and rake in obscene amounts of money, and that's something I will not support.

    Making back issues of White Dwarf which are out of print available via the internet for a reasonable(ie, cost(bandwidth, digital storage and distribution, and reformatting) +20ish%) fee; using digital technology to deliver codices and supplements at a lower cost and with more convenience; those are things I would pay for, providing they meet the criteria I listed before regarding recognition of ownership.

    EDIT: As to why people are willing to make micropayments, have a wander about the internet and read up on the psychology of marketing and pricing, and that will tell you why.

  9. #9

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Kijamon View Post
    Basically, you need sources. Lots and lots of them.
    This. To be fair I do remember some reading some research suggesting that for music, "pirates" and "legitimate" purchasers are, more often than not, one and the same thing (I think it was featured in the Guardian about a year ago).

    Is this some sort of proposal to GW or musings? I haven't seen any cost models or plans on how any of this would actually be put into place. Many of the ideas have been covered or exist already, the only one being the idea of a "one stop" shop. Of course owing to GW's own habits and behaviours such a one stop shop will likely be fraught with problems and/or ridiculously overpriced. Concerning micro-transactions, just because it exists and its being used doesn't mean people like the idea. And making it the central driving force for a content based project isn't exactly a good idea either (see Diablo III).

  10. #10
    Commander Carlosophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sheffield, UK
    Posts
    699

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    GW could turn your phone into the ultimate gamers support device. Examples:

    - iCodices
    These already exist but only as electronic versions of the paper copies, albeit with rules updates pushed straight to the community. What they need to have is interactive paint scheme designers for your army and army builders built in to the codex, so you could save your most commonly used configs and pull them together when you liked.

    - iRulebook
    Imagine a rulebook with instant search for rules and animations and videos explaining the game mechanics as opposed to diagrams.

    - Apps
    Many of us already use our phone cameras as a way of determining LoS in busy games, particularly Necromunda. An official 'companion' app that included this functionality, victory points trackers, dice rollers and other features could be very useful.

    - NFC
    In the style of Skylanders GW should embed NFC chips into the squad leaders of the models themselves. This way you could scan you could program each unit chip with a specific config, wave you phone over a set up army and it would automatically add up the points values. A free support app could also tell you facts, history and design info about the models you buy. A future Dawn of War title could scan your units for inclusion in the RTS game.

    - Games
    Howabout a multiplayer Warhammer Quest app for tablets that multiple players could get in on? Or Squad Command for phones? Or Dawn of War for tablets?

  11. #11

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    I assume an opponent finder would be reserved for players over a certain age.

    Imagine how parents would react if it wasn't.

  12. #12

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by PANZERBUNNY View Post
    I assume an opponent finder would be reserved for players over a certain age.

    Imagine how parents would react if it wasn't.
    Technical - point 5

  13. #13
    Pathfinder
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Oslo
    Posts
    1,058

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    I have also been in the industry for a number of years and the problem with sources is - when something is proven so many times (especially when common sense said it would in the first place), people stop bothering to catalogue or bookmark it due to the assumption everybody now knows this already

    As for "most people who pirate won't want it unless it's free", that is, quite frankly, beyond nonsense. Pirating isn't just about free, it's about convenience. If not, Spotify would die instantly because a ripped track is both free of cost and free of advertising. But people are prepared to accept cost or advertising so that they can get what they want anyway, conveniently, and legally. Oh and they get a bunch of other features like playlists, new content suggestions and social apps inclusive in the 'cost'. Spotify isn't the only example - in 2010, circa 9% of the content on YouTube was monetisable (I.e. of professional enough quality to be brand-safe for advertisers). In 2011 that number jumped to 42% because major video content owners uploaded their catalogues, which they had previously not distributed digitally due to fear of digital piracy eating into offline revenue. Why? Because by making the content available for free in an environment which they could control, the content owners simultaneously cut piracy (why pirate when you can consume what you want, when you want and how you want, legally), whilst also opening up new revenue streams from video in-stream advertising and subscription services. Oh, and people volunteering up their most valuable asset -their data- which content owners can use to analyse their products (what works, what is profitable, what historic content pressed buttons with X target audience so that we can apply this knowledge to make our next project targeting X audience more profitable), and can use to target their advertising to the most responsive demographics. Furthermore, making content free actually grows their consumer base - having content online for free means that you lose DVD sales but your content gets seens by far more people, who can then be converted into repeat consumers or coaxed into buying smaller things. Making a smaller profit per person, but from more people, is more secure and potentially more profitable.

    I have pirated in the past, as I bet most people here have, but I do not any more because I can get what I want legally, conveniently and for a fair price.

    Re: micropayments - actually these are actually much better value than normal pricing models. A six pack of crisps is way better 'value' than a single packet, but if all I want is a single packet then buying the multipack is a waste of money. I've just spent £2 instead of 60p, saving 40p on buying each packet individually (i.e. via micropayments) but losing £1.40 by buying things I didn't want just to get the 'value'. Buy 2 get 1 free? No thanks, I'll buy one and save 50% on the final cost. Sure - if you want every article in White Dwarf and you buy each one individually then you deserve to be shafted! But if you only want something specific, paying the full price of the magazine just to access an article which you could have bought independently at a lower price is simply dumb. Marketing hasn't pulled the wool over our eyes with micropayments, it pulled the wool over our eyes with combi-payments by creating demand for a concept called 'value'. It is simply the subliminal process of replacing someone's concept of what they actually need, with the concept of what they could potentially get. Yes if they get more the incremental cost is lower - but the overall cost is higher and people accept that even though they don't need the extra deliverables, because of the sense of 'value'.

    I should know, I get paid to tear apart data from marketing activity then show the devil where they need to squeeze harder

    Anyway - I really like what you are proposing and if I were more of a gamer and less of a creative, I would want it. There is almost certainly a market for this (and don't be put off by the fact that people will always vent their negative opinions before they offer the positive, basic human psychology).

    GW have addressed a couple of your points by way of the digital codices (which, unlike someone claimed, are not just a digital version of their print copies - they are much better as a rules resource than the print version, and slightly better in terms of fluff and showcases), but generally I see what you're trying to achieve and I like it. However I think there are a couple of different products in here, trying to squeeze into one.

    The crux of what you're suggesting could run as either a local piece of software or as an online service via a client. However, if you run it locally then you either have to solely use it offline (making a bunch of what should be minimum-requirement functions redundant), or GW have to provide you with the ongoing online service for free. That's not going to work, if you sell at a fixed price but have no idea what your ongoing cost per unit is going to eventually be. Running it as an online client via subscription makes much more sense on the basis that anything anyone has paid for up-front remains their property after their subscription ends. So I buy a digital codex as normal, it always remains mine. I then subscribe to the online platform in order to use the optional and compatible services such as army builder & associated features, getting unlimited use while the subscription is active but can only use it for armies which I have purchased a codex for (determined at my account level, you need a way to link this to something which tracks your purchases, so that you can use the service from multiple devices even if your digital codex is only on your home laptop). Features which are not specific to personal property are equally available to anyone with a subscription (find a gaming group, share lists to social media, see Jervis Johnson's Kabalite list etc), but features which are directly related to specific races are only available if you have the correct codex (army builder, 3D modelled paint scheme planner etc). If it was 'subscribe, then have a free for all with all factions', it'd be popular but a commercial disaster! However, lists I build during my subscription are saved to my account and are accessible at all times even after subscription ends (I can't build new lists until I re-subscribe, but can see / print lists they already made legally).

    The business model works fine, so long as it's fair to all parties. Unlike Blizzard, for example, where you can't use the product without a subscription even if you've bought the physical game.

    I had more thoughts when I was reading your summary, but forgot now & need bed. Will try to update tomorrow (or on the plane Thurs, Norwegian airlines have free in-flight wifi!).

  14. #14

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Aryllon, this is genuinely the most useful and intelligent reply I've had in 8 separate threads on major war gaming forums and my own blog, thanks very much I'll be taking your comments ( and everyone else's here) on board.

    I also need to sleep but I need to catch up with replies to this thread ASAP

  15. #15
    Chapter Master Yodhrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Corner of No and Where.
    Posts
    1,740

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryllon View Post
    Re: micropayments - actually these are actually much better value than normal pricing models. A six pack of crisps is way better 'value' than a single packet, but if all I want is a single packet then buying the multipack is a waste of money. I've just spent £2 instead of 60p, saving 40p on buying each packet individually (i.e. via micropayments) but losing £1.40 by buying things I didn't want just to get the 'value'. Buy 2 get 1 free? No thanks, I'll buy one and save 50% on the final cost. Sure - if you want every article in White Dwarf and you buy each one individually then you deserve to be shafted! But if you only want something specific, paying the full price of the magazine just to access an article which you could have bought independently at a lower price is simply dumb. Marketing hasn't pulled the wool over our eyes with micropayments, it pulled the wool over our eyes with combi-payments by creating demand for a concept called 'value'. It is simply the subliminal process of replacing someone's concept of what they actually need, with the concept of what they could potentially get. Yes if they get more the incremental cost is lower - but the overall cost is higher and people accept that even though they don't need the extra deliverables, because of the sense of 'value'.
    Which would be dandy, except that I don't object to micropayments in principle, I object to them because in practice they are poor value for the consumer in the digital world. The best example is MMO's which switch from a subscription to a "free to play with cash shop" system; yes, when you pay a subscription fee you are paying for content you don't want and may never use, but because the per-item cost is so high in practice under the F2P system, you end up paying at least as much and often far more in order to continue accessing the same content you were before.

    As for articles, your objection is spurious, because again, I do not object to the idea of making individual articles available in principle, I object to it because it WILL be used to drastically inflate the per-article cost far beyond any level that would be justifiable by the added benefits for the consumer and cost to the distributor; if a company can publish a magazine with fifteen articles in it for £5, then they cannot justify charging say, £2 for access to any one of those articles. "Value" is not some nebulous subjective construct, it is a real number, determined by the cost in materials and labour to create and distribute a product or service, plus a reasonable profit margin to enable the content creator to support themselves and reinvest in their business. The several hundred-percent increase in prices seen when companies begin selling individual sub components of what was previously a whole are nothing more than naked greed.

  16. #16

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodhrin View Post
    if a company can publish a magazine with fifteen articles in it for £5, then they cannot justify charging say, £2 for access to any one of those articles. "Value" is not some nebulous subjective construct, it is a real number, determined by the cost in materials and labour to create and distribute a product or service, plus a reasonable profit margin to enable the content creator to support themselves and reinvest in their business. The several hundred-percent increase in prices seen when companies begin selling individual sub components of what was previously a whole are nothing more than naked greed.
    I agree with you regarding the price - all other things aside, if a back articles and new content was available to purchase, I think a much fairer price would be around 50pence, or even the iTunes store 79p.

    Personally I begrudge paying £3.50 (sub price) for WD considering I only ever read the 40k sections & the painting guides.

  17. #17

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodhrin View Post
    I also point-blank refuse to support a company that charges me money for a product, and then insists that it's actually a service and they reserve the right to remove my access to what I have paid for.
    You have a lot of interesting points so I hope I cover them all, shout if I've missed anything.

    The service I'm considering here, is entirely that, a service. Most likely paid for month by month on a subscription basis - pay, you have access, don't pay, no access. It's model I was highly reticent about until I tried and subsequently fully bought into, Spotify. So much so I don't buy, or even own, and CDs any more.

    There is an alternative model I think would sit very well with the monthly subscription which is single payments for access to single codexes. They would be the same as the subscription versions, so fully and continuously updated and tweaked as errors came in but a single fee of £20.

    Micropayments for old articles, priced at 50pence could still be viable for either model.

  18. #18

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Kijamon View Post
    You can't be your own source of information. Unless your project is just a giant opinion piece in which case it's no better than a blog.
    If you want to produce something to show to GW and say "LOOK AT THIS!" then you need proof.

    Indeed & I agree - sorry maybe I should have been more clear, I was glossing other established industry facts because I tend to present these things inside the industry. What specific things aren't supported in your eyes, I'll source them?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kijamon View Post
    If GW produce a program or system that isn't 100% hack proof then what's to stop you uploading the program or your pdf on a tablet and rocking up to your local GW and playing with it?

    Nothing. Except the product will be cheap, easy to sign up for, easy to use, constantly updated & one step ahead. +I'd expect at least a little moral fibre from game clubs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kijamon View Post
    How can they prove my cracked PDF or system that they themselves produce is legit?

    Because it categorically isn't a PDF, it's a web service using cutting edge web technologies to adapt the experience to your viewing device.


    Every forum I've posted this on I've struggled to get this across - again it's because I do this all day ever day I forget sometimes that people don;t always know what I'm talking about!


    This is an entirely new way of looking at things, it's not following the publishing model which is forced upon you when you only have printed papers, it;s embracing all of the brave new world possibilities that digital distribution can bring.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kijamon View Post
    However, they simply don't have the money, time or control they would expect to organise the project. If all you say is "Do this, it'll be great because I've got 12 years of industry experience" it won't convince them.

    You over estimate the cost. A website that in 2002 would have cost upwards of a million pounds is now available, for free, ready to reply in about half an hour, including setting up a domain name. The industry gets faster, all the time, exponentially.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kijamon View Post
    I really like the format and tone of your piece, keep working on it. You have the majority of it there.

    Always good to know
    Last edited by Tetsugaku; 25-07-2012 at 09:53.

  19. #19

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodhrin View Post
    I will pay for digital products ONLY in the event that I am provided with a DRM-free copy of whatever it is I am paying for, which I can then back-up, print-off, or otherwise alter as I see fit under the constraints of Fair Use(ie, when the company acknowledges they have sold me a product, not rented me access to it)

    I totally understand your point here - however I'm not aware of any service of a significant size that let's you do this? The much larger point of access rights & ownership is a fascinating one. I *do* think you should be able to resell software for example, something that's still a little up in the air (but assumed you can;t)


    This *is* a service, nothing more, nothing less.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yodhrin View Post
    I wait until they make an "ultimate" or "game of the year" edition available as a physical product.

    I personally wait until these turn up on ebay - Fallout 3 New Negas ultimate edition cost me about £10 and will last for months, amazing value.


    What happens next generation when we see less, if any, physical sales however?


    Quote Originally Posted by Yodhrin View Post
    As for GW digital products, I would not purchase anything along the lines you describe, because I can guarantee that the price would not be proportionate, they would want at least a couple of pounds for a single article, when that article was original published in a full magazine which cost only slightly more. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Luddite(quite the reverse), but technology is being abused by businesses in order to undermine consumer rights and rake in obscene amounts of money, and that's something I will not support.

    Again your opinions are totally fair - but you don't mention any prices or models which would be acceptable to you, what would you pay?


    Quote Originally Posted by Yodhrin View Post
    Making back issues of White Dwarf which are out of print available via the internet for a reasonable(ie, cost(bandwidth, digital storage and distribution, and reformatting) +20ish%) fee; using digital technology to deliver codices and supplements at a lower cost and with more convenience; those are things I would pay for, providing they meet the criteria I listed before regarding recognition of ownership.

    No firm charges cost + 20%. They all charge a minimum of cost x 2 + taxes. Realistically, what would you pay for, for example, the sisters of battle mini codex or for an in death painting article?

  20. #20

    Re: What could Games Workshop produce if they fully embraced digital rule distributio

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlosophy View Post
    - Apps
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlosophy View Post
    Many of us already use our phone cameras as a way of determining LoS in busy games, particularly Necromunda. An official 'companion' app that included this functionality, victory points trackers, dice rollers and other features could be very useful.
    You do? that's cool I'll think on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carlosophy View Post
    - NFC
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlosophy View Post
    In the style of Skylanders GW should embed NFC chips into the squad leaders of the models themselves. This way you could scan you could program each unit chip with a specific config, wave you phone over a set up army and it would automatically add up the points values. A free support app could also tell you facts, history and design info about the models you buy. A future Dawn of War title could scan your units for inclusion in the RTS game.
    I think the game needs to be kept very separate from these suggestions - I'd like someone who has entirely analogue rulebooks to still play an entirely digital user, this sounds like a lot of hassle and changing models.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carlosophy View Post
    - Games
    Howabout a multiplayer Warhammer Quest app for tablets that multiple players could get in on? Or Squad Command for phones? Or Dawn of War for tablets?
    [/QUOTE]


    Well I'm certain that they are coming, and soon

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •