Throwing a game

[TheDungen]

No I'm not talking about physically throwing the game, i'm talking about the concept of throwing the game. You have your mind set to lose (for one of any number of scenarios let just forget about that), how would you go about it it the least obvious way possible? how would you make sure you lost without letting the opponent realise what you're doing?

[Kevlar]

Shoot the shooty ones and assault the choppy ones.

[Overlord Krycis]

Shoot the shooty ones and assault the choppy ones.

^ What he said...even better if you shoot the shooty ones with your CC guys and assault the choppy ones with your shooty guys. Pull that off without letting on and you are on your way to a fail of epic proportions!

[Caitsidhe]

No I'm not talking about physically throwing the game, i'm talking about the concept of throwing the game. You have your mind set to lose (for one of any number of scenarios let just forget about that), how would you go about it it the least obvious way possible? how would you make sure you lost without letting the opponent realise what you're doing?

I can't think of many ethical reasons to do this, and some highly unethical ones spring to mind. I don't think you need our help to figure out how to take a dive.

[Charax]

heh, did this all the time as a staffer:

- Feign panic about an otherwise insignificant unit being too close to an objective/a table edge/my funyuns and throw something ridiculous like a Daemon Prince at it. DP destroys unit, but is left in the open.

- Suddenly deciding the land raider full of Terminators needs to be on the opposite side of the board, spend a turn or two driving it along the width of my army, blocking my own LoS and presenting a large flank to be shot at by my opponent

- Moving infantry units up to tanks so their one heavy/special weapon can get a shot, wasting a turn or two's potentially useful shooting on pinging a tank.

- Taking Possessed or a Chaos Dreadnought

- focusing on killing the enemy, not your objectives

I can't think of many ethical reasons to do this, and some highly unethical ones spring to mind. I don't think you need our help to figure out how to take a dive.

- Intro games
- Games against kids (I hate kids most of the time, but sometimes you don't want to *utterly* crush them)
- to see if you can (Back when I played regularly my win streak was immense, I got bored)

[Sqallum]

heh, did this all the time as a staffer:

- Feign panic about an otherwise insignificant unit being too close to an objective/a table edge/my funyuns and throw something ridiculous like a Daemon Prince at it. DP destroys unit, but is left in the open.


- Moving infantry units up to tanks so their one heavy/special weapon can get a shot, wasting a turn or two's potentially useful shooting on pinging a tank.

- Taking Possessed or a Chaos Dreadnought

I do these normally. And this is when I want to win. Damn.

[Dylius]

Send unsupported troops into the enemies gun line, or advance on a CC army.

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

This reminds me of a trick used in Bloodbowl to rope in new players. I would play to win, but with high casualties on my side. Somebody coming in could accept the fact that they lost and the game may take some strategy they can learn in time. The problem with losing is it can be demoralizing. That is until they are made aware of the fact that over half my team is either dead or injured so if that intro game were a league game they would be way ahead on me. It's the best way I have found to hook somebody in that particular game which is a great gateway game into miniatures.

Extending that into 40K, you need to find a way to bring to the other player's attention some aspect of the battle where you are fighting your butt off while leaving the objective open to the person you are playing with. You don't want to point and shout, "Look of here!" You want them to focus on their losses before that win comes in for them. Do things such as making risky maneuvers with your troops while trying to make certain their troops are left relatively unscathed. Actively engage their elites and don't worry too much if you happen to wipe those out. The same goes for fast attack and heavy support depending on the mission. The key is to take out the pieces that the other player can not score with so that the player feels they are behind until the points are added up at the end of the game. This will have the added benefit of driving home how important objectives are if you do manage to wipe out most or all of the non scoring units. To further capitalize on this, maybe have a fast easy to kill unit or two ride out ahead of your army to get killed so the player gets first blood. Have a general that doesn't focus on close combat accidentally get stuck in.

So basically, trounce them good, but leave the essentials (anything scoring) alone. If you are worried about this seeming obvious then place a troops unit or two on a couple of centralized objectives that should hopefully be easy to take out. If you need to position them to where they don't get cover saves and so anybody charging them doesn't have to worry about if they have grenades or not.

[Crube]

Again, when running intro games... getting over excited and 'forgetting' to do something... leave a clear LOS to something important, brag about your most killiy things, then leave them unsupported...

[scapegoatboy69]

Try saying "I wonder what'll happen if I do this!" or "Let's make things interesting."

There's often very little difference between an audacious move and a stupid one.

[TheDungen]

I was actually thinking of intro games, so throwing a game against someone who while inexperienced in the realm of war gaming but smart enough to call the bluff if i do something utterly ridiculous.

[Baaltor]

Well, I think throwing games is unforgivably patronising, but the best advice I can think of is this: placement wins you the game, so it can lose you the game too.

[boogle]

As an ex staffer, i never tried to throw an intro game, i always gave the person wanting to learn the game chances to do things that would benefit them.

[Lord_Byron]

I do this during list building. If my dark eldar are on a 3 game winning streak against a particular player then on game 4 I'll strongly consider giving my mandrakes, cronos parasite engine or what have you some time on the table. I wouldn't ever *play* with less than my regular skill level. It's too obvious and insulting to the other player.

[badguyshaveallthefun]

I do this during list building. If my dark eldar are on a 3 game winning streak against a particular player then on game 4 I'll strongly consider giving my mandrakes, cronos parasite engine or what have you some time on the table. I wouldn't ever *play* with less than my regular skill level. It's too obvious and insulting to the other player.

Pretty much this. I don't think that throwing a game really benefits anyone, and I just don't have it in me to play at anything other than my best, so rather than just play "stupid", I'll just bring a really soft list, I'll break out the guardians or the wraithlords (although they are better now) or the shining spears, things that otherwise don't see the light of day.

[Vepr]

I never technically throw a game but against my youngest two children I will do something where I take time to explain consequences and play out multiple scenarios. In my last game against my 10 year olds marines he dumped his berserkers out way early to thrash some gants headed towards one of three objectives that he easily could have taken care of with a basic squad of chaos marines nearby. I killed the rhino and then explained to him his mistakes. I then explained how the smart thing for me to do was to keep backing up my spitter warriors while whittling down his berserkers as he advanced on the objective. We played it out and then we backed things up and I allowed him stay in the rhino and bring his beserkers right to my warriors and the objective while letting his other squad handle the gants. I will allow them one do over on a "new" mistake after explaining the consequences and playing out both or even multiple scenarios but I only do that one time. He had never used berserkers so being 10 he got over excited and committed them way early not even half way across the board. If they make the same mistake again they pay for it. Most of the time it does not even cost me the game but lets them see different outcomes. It is easy to do with the small point games we play and even teaches me something sometimes. He has even turned it around on me a few times most recently when I forgot he was proxying some oblits and stepped out into the open in a bad place. “Now dad, what you should have done here is stay in cover and waited to screen with…”

[ForgottenLore]

Yeah, its not hard to make deliberate tactical errors if you really want to.

When the situation arises, I don't generally try and outright throw a game, but try to handicap myself so that it works out to at least be a close game, and pretty much only when teaching someone, or when playing this one friend of mine who is simply a terrible player.

[Kijamon]

I just play fluffy.

Blood Claws! HOooooooooooooooo!

[Vepr]

I just play fluffy.

Blood Claws! HOooooooooooooooo!

I am still waiting for the super fluffy Space Wolf player that has his own units attack those warp loving witchs known as rune priests…

[Chem-Dog]

I do what I do anyway, point out the obvious follies in an opponent's move. If he moves a unit into charge range of something that he'd probably not like to get charged by, I'll say " You do realise they'll get charged by the XXX if you do that" or something like that. If it's really bad, I'll inform them of my next proposed move.

There are a couple of guys in my group who are....Well, I'll just say that they are Grey Knight and Blood Angels players and rather in love with their phenomenally expensive named characters and things that use the word "dread" in the title.... these guys (lovely chaps in every regard) both tend to get horribly despondent when their uber units fail to kill something that's hurting them or get killed themselves.
So I don't throw the game, I just give suggestions as to how not to make things worse for themselves, remind them not to bunch their men up as the Hellhound closes in, pointing out rules that are forgotten. That way they are, hopefully, learning how to play better.

Of course there is also the time when a squad of 8 ogryn and a Primaris psyker sat an entire game out on an objective in my deployment zone because the expected countercharge was stalled for fear of a Bs3 Lascannon