Just play a REALLY crappy list as well as you can. You will still win often if you are good enough, though. If that is the case then go for his army pitched-battle style, ignoring the objectives (leaving him the objectives to score).
Just play a REALLY crappy list as well as you can. You will still win often if you are good enough, though. If that is the case then go for his army pitched-battle style, ignoring the objectives (leaving him the objectives to score).
I give my opponent tactical advice, point out weaknesses in my line and tell them what would really put a spanner in the works. If they still don't pull out a win then I will give them some post game advice in hopes that they will kick my **** the next time. I've been wargaming for a good long time and I have played in loads of different systems, so I can tend to optimize and plan better than most. So when I am demoing a game for someone or helping them improve then I find the best way to throw a game is to teach them to spot weaknesses. Teach a man to fish and all that.... mmm, fish.
Eventually I can stop soliciting advice and get down to playing with people who can give me a run for my money. I enjoy winning (and losing) the most when it is hard fought and down to the wire. I just don't find I get the same feeling of accomplishment if I try to secretly job the game. Because my opponent learned nothing, didn't improve (and may have gotten worse by picking up bad habits against my shoddy playstyle) and I don't enjoy not giving my best shot at something (seems patronizing to me). That said I try not to be overbearing with the advice either and only tend to do it if the other person is getting frustrated. If they seem to be having a grand time doing what they're doing then they probably just enjoy the game for different reasons then I do.
You know a unit of bloodclaws isn't bad, they just shouldn't be spammedOriginally Posted by Kijamon
Oh wolves ignore their own shamans, its one of the reasons they're one of the most human fractionsI am still waiting for the super fluffy Space Wolf player that has his own units attack those warp loving witchs known as rune priests….
Honestly I think your going about it wrong, its a lot better to set up scenario where list wise they have the advantage, but they can figure what works (i.e. giving them a few extra points). Throwing the game just gives them bad information. If they're smart and want to play the game, then they'll like that there is skill involved. Plus it shows them the narrative side of the game, as they can see your forces last stand and thats a valid way to play as well.
Simple, just do what I do: play Black Templars without MSU rocket spam or terminators. That'll show 'em who's boss.
A character isn't a good character if he isn't running around solo.
Using worthless psyker powers when there's stuff like Runes of Warding or Shadows of the Warp affecting you.
Forgot look out sir on my powerfist, darnit...
What do you mean my bloodletters can't hurt this Ironclad?
Orcs and Goblins: Actual Wins+5/Actual Ties/Actual Losses-5
We've had this issue trying to bring new players into our gaming group. It's either one person explains every situation to them, and then "strongly" recommends the most tactical move... or one of us plays intentionally bad so that the new player can make their own tactical decisions and still not get demoralized. I enjoy playing with my friends, and if I have to throw a game to keep their enjoyment up I'm okay with that. I remember when I first started playing there was a point I almost quit because I lost so much. Losing alot isn't fun.
"Just some advice, but if I were you I'd move these guys here to assault them because that is there role...."
Correct, losing a lot (especially when you're new) isn't fun, but you have to be careful as for a lot of people realizing the only reason you had a chance (let alone won) was because the other player was throwing the game can be much much worse. A much safer approach would probably be the "explain EVERYTHING" route a few have mentioned. Tell them what you have and why, why you do what you do, how you'll react to what they've done. Have them make the same explanations and talk over decisions you think will turn out particularly poorly. The game will take a lot longer than usual and be pretty "flat" in the sense that sneaky tricks won't really be all that sneaky, but it can be a good way to give people a picture of what's going on in a game at a pace that won't overwhelm them (as you're taking it deliberately slowly) without having to worry as much about the person learning getting discouraged by losses (as the games *should* tend towards being even so long as the dice gods don't desert someone). Tailoring your list can also be helpful for this, as you can pick something of a similar power level to theirs, make sure there's a good mix of unit types, and that there isn't an excess of rules exceptions (and not just the powerful ones).
Think of it like playing card games open-handed the first couple times- it provides a better reason for a closer-than-normal game than "I wanted you to win" and gives the person a better starting point for thinking through play. If people continue to make the same mistakes over and over, Vepr's approach is better than just going easy on them, as they can both learn from their mistake (either by explanation or actually playing-then-rewinding) and maintain an honest chance of winning. Intentionally playing badly lets them have their fun that afternoon, but doesn't help them get any better. The lists should be where most of the effort goes into maintaining new-player enjoyment/comfort, really, as someone gets a few more games and starts adjusting their list, use your list to keep it a fun challenge, not your level of play.
I would not throw a game ever, not because i cant stand to lose i'm generally okay with losing i may whinge a bit about how something didnt go my way then i'm over it (except 5th ed battle missions i despise those and i'm glad they are gone).
One of my best friends is an orc player and as such is at a disadvantage in alot of games but he never lets a loss get to him, he learns from it and improves and i think handing him a win would not help him but would hamper his efforts to get an old codex to work competativley as he'd think something worked when it didnt.
Yeah losing all the time can demorilize you, when i started playing again after a 6 year break i lost my first few games as i didnt know how 5th played and had to learn the rules, but now i win more than i lose and my friends not going easy on me helped me because it showed me what did and didnt work and i adjusted to compensate.
Dont throw a game even for kids, its okay to lose and i hate how we coddle kids today the real world does not reward runner ups, instead give them advise during the game and after point out things they could have done differently.
Play a xenos race lol. No Really, Play the bad guy role. My Chaos lord will take on your hero and his unit all on his own, if he fails, vow revenge no matter the cost, send what ever you have, into the hero meat grinder. This lets you move your troops off of your objectives like an actual movie villain, sacrificing useless pawns for petty spite. If your chaos lord does beat the HQ remark about how not even those lascannons can stop him (Hint: they can). Win or lose New guys like having their heroes being heroic. Every battle, turn up the pressure: this battle the chaos lord has a daemon weapon, and a unit of Summoned lesser daemons. The next battle when his hero tangles with your lord, give a good "Muah ha ha, behold true power!" andTurn him into a summoned greater daemon. This is very cinematic, and automatically gives the other player points for killing the warlord on the sly. After his failure he can be regulated to being a spawn next game! Throwing the game can be very fun, and make the game the movie on the table top it should always be.
The real world rewards cheaters, liers and crooks, 40k is about fun, as players get better, you turn the heat up. It's not coddling to do this, it's wrong to club baby seals. Thats why sports are divided by Pro, amateur, major, minor leagues. Think of these games as exhibition matches or a sparring match, two friends having fun in the ringif you will .
I'm not saying throw the game as default i'm saying keeping that option open should the new player peform badly. Also makign a scenario and lists that benefits the new players require you to have prepared for it in the first place.
But sure i think i have a fair idea how to deal with it now if the need should arise, thanks for the help folks.
Not exactly subtle, is it?^ What he said...even better if you shoot the shooty ones with your CC guys and assault the choppy ones with your shooty guys. Pull that off without letting on and you are on your way to a fail of epic proportions!
Exactly my point.
Really needs to be broken down into two or three paragraphs, far easier to read that way.I never technically throw a game but against my youngest two children I will do something where I take time to explain consequences and play out multiple scenarios.
In my last game against my 10 year olds marines he dumped his berserkers out way early to thrash some gants headed towards one of three objectives that he easily could have taken care of with a basic squad of chaos marines nearby. I killed the rhino and then explained to him his mistakes. I then explained how the smart thing for me to do was to keep backing up my spitter warriors while whittling down his berserkers as he advanced on the objective. We played it out and then we backed things up and I allowed him stay in the rhino and bring his beserkers right to my warriors and the objective while letting his other squad handle the gants. I will allow them one do over on a "new" mistake after explaining the consequences and playing out both or even multiple scenarios but I only do that one time. He had never used berserkers so being 10 he got over excited and committed them way early not even half way across the board. If they make the same mistake again they pay for it.
Most of the time it does not even cost me the game but lets them see different outcomes. It is easy to do with the small point games we play and even teaches me something sometimes.
He has even turned it around on me a few times most recently when I forgot he was proxying some oblits and stepped out into the open in a bad place. “Now dad, what you should have done here is stay in cover and waited to screen with…”
But that's exactly the way I teach Go to inexperienced players.
Regarding the original qustion, I think the best way to go about it is play a weak list. resh players often take a while to even realize that the different codices are pretty badly balanced, until they do you can always take a handicap outright by fielding a subpar list. If you enjoy fluff lists, you can use this as a good excuse to field something like a Swooping Hawk and Guardian heavy Alaitoc /Ulthwe /whatever-your-fluff-is list.
Personally, if I realized midgame that I'm crushing my opponent and that it would be the humane thing to throw them a bone, I'd probably tweak my strategy in a subtle way. As an Elar finesse player, if I'm winning, I'm usually winning because I'm outplaying my opponent quite a bit. I don't really have to make obvious mistakes, I just have to not make the subtle moves that he can't quite figure out that would normally win me the game.
Currently really psyched about: My Cygnar army
My Warmachine Tactics Intoduction Guide
It always buffles me when intelligent people, and native speakers at that, get there and they're and their wrong.
Currently really psyched about: My Cygnar army
My Warmachine Tactics Intoduction Guide
It baffles me that you think you have to correct people's english. This is not an english class. It's a forum. Deal with it.
Take a Space Marine battle company. It is a "point and click" losing armylist. That many foot marines will result in very high casualties, giving your opponent the impression that they are doing well, when in reality there wasn't much those foot marines were capable of in the first place.
An intelligent player can generally tell you are throwing the game even if they are unfamilar with the rules. So lose in the armylist, and justify your unit choices by calling them fluffy, cool looking, all you have available, or feign ignorance of the units potential. "Well I thought tactical marines were good all arounders so when I brought 60 of them I figured they could handle shooting and close combat well enough to compensate for the lack of more specialized units."
I'd never throw a game for the reasons mentioned by others (it's a terribly unethical way to teach and I'd dislike it to be done for me), but if I ever had to throw a game I'd simply over-commit. My Guard I play are basically themed as an elite strike force who I use by striking forward hard and pulling back, leaving just enough in place to hold the enemy off the majority of the objectives and deny kill points. It doesn't always work, but it's a really fun way for me to play--one that could easily allow me to throw a game by stepping slightly over the line of when to pull back or not leaving enough behind.
On the topic of throwing intro games, I really think what others have said about making it fun and interesting through means other than it just being a vanilla game with some explanation thrown in is the way to go. My first 40k game was against a friend who basically set up a line of ruins on one side of a table and a 1500 list filled with max Falcons on the other side. The IG list he gave me was build for the singular purpose of having as many lascannons as possible. It was hilariously fun and I got to grips with all of the basic mechanics, ideas and whatnot so that the next game I played was actually pretty fair with no assistance.
... though it has left me with an unhealthy disdain of Falcons and holofields...
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I throw the game just by showing up to play.
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If I am trying to get a new person into the game and give them good experience and wins while being ethical, I just invite them to play 2v2 team games. Give them the strongest team mate possible and then not only do they have a decent chance of winning on their own merit, but they also have someone to help them they wont resent getting help from. Of course it only works if the people are interested in learning. I remember one game with the following dialogue:
player 1: "You should go attack his forces on the left flank, but whatever you do, don't move your truck there."
player 2 "Ok" (proceeds to move his truck to the exact spot pointed out)
shooting phase starts
player 1: "Why did you move your truck there?!?!?!?!?!?!?"
If, for some reason, you actively want to throw a game I would say the best way to do that would be get overzealous and outright skip a phase or 2. move a squad into a good position and then start shooting or even just assault without moving anything else. Then "remember" you forgot the rest of your turn and let it pass. If they offer to let you go back and do the rest say that it was your mistake and that if you don't suffer the consequences then you wont learn. Not only does it give them a victory, but also a lesson about making sure they did everything.
I hate that sort of "learning". It always ends up that the new person isn't the one actually playing the game, they just get to move the models and watch as an experienced player plays the game for them.
Once upon a midnight dreary...
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