Looking at the Corsair supplement by Forgeworld, it mentions a the Void Dragon Eldar corsairs had "a fleet in excess of 3,500 ships" according to the Imperial Navy. They operate 'across the galaxy: Cadian Gate, Tau Empire, Eye of Terror, Halo Stars' are all places the Void Dragons have cropped up.
So it sounds like a pretty notable thing in the context of that war, but how does their size compare to other known fleets in 40k fluff? Be they Eldar, Imperial, Chaos, Ork, and so on.
Last edited by OgreBattle; 24-07-2012 at 06:25.
If I were to venture a guess (with no background material on hand to back me up or contradict me), I'd say it's somewhere above the size of what the Legiones Astartes once had...
Of course, a large part of these would probably be small ships, like frigates, destroyers and escort craft, but that's an impressive fleet by any standards...
Originally Posted by Bunnahabhain
Yes. An Imperial sector fleet has 50-75 ships by BFG rulebook and is the largest permanent formation of the Imperial Navy. So the Void Dragons fleet equals to 46-70 sector fleets. If we assume there are 10.000 sectors in the Imperium (most sectors we see detailed have between 50 and 200 worlds, so let's just assume 100 as average), it means that the Void Dragons have between 0,46% and 0,7% of the entire Imperial Navy. What is essentially an anarchic band of outcasts and never-do-wells who live from pillaging other races has the size of about 1/200th of the dominant galactic naval power
But then if you tank into consideration the imperiums trade fleet, that would number higher. After all, all that material getting from planet to planet etc needs ships and a lot of them.
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I wouldn't consider the merchant ships part of the military navy.
Keep in mind the Void Dragons are only one of the Eldar outcast factions, and not even the largest (which would be Yriel's Eldritch Raiders).
“For a long time humour was thought to be the most potent antidepressant; recently, though, it was found that the bitter suffering of one's enemies, with the placing of sensible limitations on the success of one's friends, was still more effective.”
We dont really have accurate numbers on those though, it could be 3000 Merchant and support ships backing up 500 warships, or 3500 Cruisers or something in betweenIts still a big fleet over a huge area but you cant make any other assumptions based on that data really.
The Void Raiders will not have merchant ships among that number due to the nature of the organisation, and I would count 'support' ships as military vessels (they may not do frontline fighting, but they're directly involved with the forces) for all factions; the Imperial numbers will include some support ships as well, but not merchant ships who are not part of the navy.
“For a long time humour was thought to be the most potent antidepressant; recently, though, it was found that the bitter suffering of one's enemies, with the placing of sensible limitations on the success of one's friends, was still more effective.”
I know Imperial ships are crewed by thousands or millions, how about Eldar ships?
We usually only see information on interstellar ships in the Imperium, but presumably there are also many smaller warships which are independent but don't jump warp. This distinction wouldn't exist for the Eldar and even their smallest independent vessels would count towards their numbers.
If that is in world description, is it possible that the number is exaggerated? Getting good numbers on enemy ships in that operates from the Cadian Gate, to Tau Empire, to Eye of Terror, to Halo Stars' isn't going to be easy, and double or triple counting (let alone people exaggerating what they see in the heat of battle) is a possibility.
Of course they may just be counting small fighters as well?
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And they could be excluding vessels that they've not encountered, or that have left no survivors to tell the tale - so there could actually be a lot more than the 3,500 estimated.
The numbers could also be fairly fluid - say a captain joins up with the Void Dragons for a few years, then leaves and either forms their own corsair fleet, or tires of the outcast life and returns to their craftworld, or a smaller group loses a fight with them and the survivors get swallowed up, and eventually distributed around the fleet.
And there could be other corsair groups that have similar colours and markings to the Void Dragons (some accidentally, some on purpose to deflect reprisals), meaning that Naval Intelligence confuse them.
IIRC: Andy Chambers said they have about half the amount (which means they have more or less the same order of magnitude of crew per ship, or it could have been 1/10th of the amount but I don't think it's too far from either of these) for the equivalent size category.
The Imperial Ships with millions of crew are only the really really big ones (BB upwards); I think proportionally more of it is made up of the smaller ships.
“For a long time humour was thought to be the most potent antidepressant; recently, though, it was found that the bitter suffering of one's enemies, with the placing of sensible limitations on the success of one's friends, was still more effective.”
Well, if you have a fleet of 3500 ships, that would include all auxilliaries, transports, fuel tenders, troop haulers, repair and refit support craft and other things, beyond the line cruisers, battleships and escort squadrons.
Still, that would be a big fleet. If you count everything larger than an assault boat a "ship" or indeed that any space craft with a commander that is not the pilot/helmsman, then it would be like a larger crusade fleet. But if you're talking just military ships intended for battle, then I think that would be around all the front line Cruisers of the Imperium combined...
This, it does not say a fleet of 3500 battleships or combat worthy vessels or anything of the sort. That fact that eldar pirates who may not have easy access to supplies, dock yards, etc would mean they would need a HUGE number of support, scout, supply, etc ships.
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I think we can also take into account the fact that not all of these ships are battle-barge or grand cruiser sized behemoths. A fleet would also be composed of numerous smaller strike vessels, frigates, and support ships.
For example, a Space Marine fleet is considered very powerful and mobile, but it rarely goes over three battle-barges, 10 strike cruisers, etc. If you account thunderhawks as part of the fleet number, than a SM fleet would be around 40-50 ships.
Imperial navy would be quite a bit larger due to them being a numerically superior force by a three orders of magnitude, so 3000 ships can be a good bet for a large Imperial fleet. But the big hitters, the Battleships, and Cruisers, would only consist of a small percentage of the total
What do we know about Eldar fleets though when it comes to suppliers, cargo ships and such?
With the webway it seems that a great deal of logistics is simplified. Larger ships simply have a space/time portal to where their supplies are.
They are also pirate raiders, most supplies they need, they take from any alien ships lying around.
heh, now I'm imagining what being a logistics clerk in COmmoragh is like "hmmm, souls, slaves... damn we're low on souls again."
I'd imagne being a logistics clerk in Commorgath would be a pain. Not only do you need to keep track of slaves, but you need to know how many dark eldar have to be regrown. And I doubt the webway is a great place to grow things. So even getting raw materials might, and that is "might" as in I have no idea really, require trips outside. Do we even know is living in the webway is self sufficient?
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There are some Eldar transport vessels for BFG - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Battlefl...RANSPORTS.html
As for a logistics clerk in Commoragh, I'd say each individual cult and kabal tends to their own needs, likely with a slave doing the actual book keeping.
The 3500 ships or so may include support ships. But so would the Imperial Navy. You can't give a double standard that gives the numbers for the Sector fleets only warships and not including their logistical train (which are part of the navy and does not include merchant ships).
Remember the Eldar pirates were a major faction in 40K Rogue Trader before the Craftworld list was printed. In BFG they are a major faction.
An Imperial fleet of 3000 ships wouldn't be typical. That's 50 sectors worth of ships; in other sectors you're either drawing the entire fleet allocated from 60 sectors or including even more sectors to draw ships from.
“For a long time humour was thought to be the most potent antidepressant; recently, though, it was found that the bitter suffering of one's enemies, with the placing of sensible limitations on the success of one's friends, was still more effective.”
50 sectors worth of interstellar warships. Here's quoting Rogue Trader (RPG)
Not at all to suggest that every Imperial system is overflowing with lighter ships and 3500 isn't a big number, but the way the Eldar travel means they would be able to bring ships equivalent to Imperial sub-stellar ones on the offensive, maybe down to the level of 'very very much smaller than normal Imperial warships'.The vast majority of spacecraft in the Imperium are not interstellar ships at all, but sub-stellar ships which travel only within the confines of their own star system... Most space warfare centers around planets, installations, and other important targets within a solar system. It is therefore sensible to maintain sub-stellar warships in the proximity of vulnerable systems.
Last edited by Grimbad; 26-07-2012 at 07:26.
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