Best internal balance?

[SilentTempest]

So I've been wondering lately, what army do people think has the best internal balance? By that, I mean which army requires people to make the most meaningful choices, because it has the fewest incidence of units which are either absolutely awful, or auto-takes because they're so good? I'd be curious to hear people's opinions.

[Soundwave]

I would have to say the two mainstay classics of empire and orcs and goblins these two books provide cannons of varied tactica and well balanced designs.

[Ultimate Life Form]

Lizardmen - just write a list and enjoy.

[calnen]

Orcs and Goblins, Lizardmen, Dark Elves. In all the armies you regularly see pretty much everything in their books being fielded.

Empire I don't think so under the new book. I've only been to one big tourny since the new version came out, and there were a lot of Empire players there (11 or so out of 100 players) all with pretty similar lists. No flaggies, spearmen, crossbowmen or mortars in any of those lists, but an awful lot of Demigryphs!

[Why]

Lizardmen and Vampire counts.

[Askari]

Vampires have pretty good internal balance. Some units you need to tailor the list for them to work, but that overall list will be as good as any other you can manage. Only the Strigoi Ghoul King and Black Coach really lets down in my opinion, everything else, even Fell Bats, can be used to effect.

[SilentTempest]

Thanks for some helpful responses, folks. I'd like to hone in on a particular query now.

A few people have nominated Lizardmen as having good internal balance. Most people have focused on that every unit gets used, but there hasn't been a lot of comment on MUST TAKE units. In particular, I'm thinking of the Slann. Do people consider the fat frog to be so good it's a must-take? It seems pretty crazy good... (I should probably disclaim myself here and say that I only have one opponent, who is an O&G player, and I have traditionally played Wood Elves, although have proxied a few armies (including Lizards with a Slann) in a search for a new army.)

[Yamabushi]

Tomb Kings.

Ushabti and basic Warriors are subpar, but the rest of the unit entries are pretty much ok. (yes, even the much maligned Horsemen!). The closest thing that would come close to an auto include is the Casket.

[Cragum]

Im going to throw it out. Skaven.

I know people say they are a power army and that things must be taken. But I think that they are balanced when you look at them they have everything you need in warhammer to use rules wise. Like you have shooting, warmachines, weak troops, slightly tougher troops, good and bad caster, big beasts, skirmishers and a couple little special extras such as things like the weapon teams.

[T10]

So I've been wondering lately, what army do people think has the best internal balance? By that, I mean which army requires people to make the most meaningful choices, because it has the fewest incidence of units which are either absolutely awful, or auto-takes because they're so good? I'd be curious to hear people's opinions.

The previous O&G book was hands-down the best army list by these criteria: you could simply close your eyes and imagine what sort of army you wanted to play, and then you could pick your units accordingly without automatically handicapping yourself with a suv par unit.

Well, except for the fact that Orc Boar Boyz sucked a big fat donkey rooster. So, best. Not perfect.

-T10

[Askari]

I know people say they are a power army and that things must be taken. But I think that they are balanced when you look at them they have everything you need in warhammer to use rules wise. Like you have shooting, warmachines, weak troops, slightly tougher troops, good and bad caster, big beasts, skirmishers and a couple little special extras such as things like the weapon teams.

No Cavalry, Chariots (well, the Screaming Bell kind of is, but it's a very special case) or Flying units throws out that idea. They don't really have elite infantry either, Stormvermin are above average at best.

[Why]

Queek headtaker stormvermin

[Djekar]

I have to give another nod to the Orc and Goblin book. I find really everything excepting snotlings, to be usable/moderately competative.

[Wesser]

Orc's and Goblins
Vampire Counts

Everything in those books are usable. Snotlings and Black Coaches are a little weak, but thats all rly.

Of the 8th edition books Empire takes last place. In each and every category choices are glaringly unequal

[Graxy]

Another vote for O&G and vamps. I would say Lizards as well as this, but in reality, the only reasons they have internal balance (arguably) is due to he fact that they have so few options. Even with this, there are still units that you don't see too often: Jungle swarms, Cold one cav, Kroxigor (units, not skink with krox), razordons, old bloods/ scar vets on foot. Also the fact that slann are pretty much an auto include.

[Why]

Yes but all the units you listed are still pretty good, besides jungle swarms. 2 oldbloods cause about 6 wounds each combat. That is enough to sway a combat almost as much as a good augment or hex can, and you don't have to worry about it getting dispelled. Razordons are good enough but salamanders are better. Kroxigors are great can openers, they just work better with skinks. Cold one cav. are just another heavy cav. unit. Slann is great but your list can be decent without him.

The only thing that is super bad are the special chars, they all forgot to wear armor

[Cragum]

No Cavalry, Chariots (well, the Screaming Bell kind of is, but it's a very special case) or Flying units throws out that idea. They don't really have elite infantry either, Stormvermin are above average at best.

Well they do have a chariot in the form of the doomwheel. They dont need cavalry due to being one of the fastest armies in the game. And not many armys own flying units anyways. But from that they do have skirmishers what a lot of other armies dont have, stormvermin and plaguemonks are perfectly elite units. Maybe not as strong as other armies elite units but for their price they are damn good...

[Zeroth]

big fat donkey rooster

If you google this, you get to this thread

[T10]

Win!

-T10

[Makaber]

If you google this, you get to this thread

...What kind of research went into this?