Hey guys, i've had a quick flip through the rules, but haven't pick them up yet. I was just wondering what are peoples views of the game? mainly from a non-fanboi view, as some people would buy aturd wrapped in gold from GW!
I used to play alot of 4th and 5th, but event armies just kept getting cheesier and cheesier untill i stopped to play FoW. Was just wondering if it's worth trying out 6th without having to buy flyers or allies for my foot guard?
Cheers,
Manny
Do you have Autocannons?
If so, then you don't really need flyers (although you do get the Vendetta which is one of the better ones).
Honestly? I really like this edition.
I get to ally daemons with my Death Guard (so have a use for the Plaguebearers I bought about a decade ago), I can move and fire with heavy weapons, Overwatch (yay!) and I get to declare challenges with my heroic/villainous General.
There are a few things that are a bitat the moment, but I'm sure as new codices are released we will see things brought back into line.
Overall, I've really enjoyed the games I've had so far.
Last edited by Overlord Krycis; 24-07-2012 at 15:02.
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Two wrongs don't make a right...but 3 lefts do.
Find a group that fits your playstyle.
Profit.
My group is competitive yet we don't abuse the system and field 9 flyers or things of that nature.
NOTE: my use of the word "powergamer" is not meant as a derrogatory or inflammatory word used in a negative context. It is used to describe a type of player that uses power builds
6th edition doesn't do any more to promote or discourage 'cheesey' lists than any other edition has.
It's not necessarilly any better or worse than 4th/5th editions, it's just different, which is how GW core rules changes tend to work.
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Yeah i think I would be up for giving it a blast without flyers...but theres just the thought that someone, somewhere will use 9 vendettas lol
I think I'm going to see a lot more "house rules" in 6th edition than I did in 5th edition. Possibly even more than 3rd and 4th (I think 5th was the nadir).
Originally Posted by DoctorTom
As opposed to all the threads full of fake views that have been posted?
I like it although it doesn't actually "feel" a whole lot different than 5th did - there are lots of small tweaks that alter the game balance but its still 40k. Cheese hasn't suddenly ceased to exist if that's what your after but infantry is more viable than before and mech no longer the only game in town - just an option.
One of the most common post game evaluations I've heard is that sixth is the most fun people have had with 40K in a very long time, an opinion that I certainly endorse myself.
Man, I've seen this all before, and there's only one way it can end. In blood, tears, and the limp-wristed flailing of nerd-slaps.
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Fielding a couple flyers is fun. Fielding 9 fliers is not a game to me.
What I like better about 6th:
* random terrain - strategic enhancement to me
* overwatch and snapfire
* the neutering of the paladin/nob biker wound factory
* adding of flyers
Overall the game has a higher fun factor for me.
Last edited by IcedCrow; 24-07-2012 at 15:37.
NOTE: my use of the word "powergamer" is not meant as a derrogatory or inflammatory word used in a negative context. It is used to describe a type of player that uses power builds
I have way more fun playing 6th Ed games than I did 5th. I feel the games are much closer and even when losing badly I have a lot of fun playing the game. It feels more streamlined to me and more immersive
My personal opinion? Well...There's lots of good stuff in the 6E book, I really do like a lot of it, I like the return of overwatch, I like the "random" charges, I like the "snapshot" rules, I like a lot of the new psychic powers, I like many of the new missions, I like pre-measuring, I like the new cover rules, I like the new "artillery" unit-type rules, I like a lot of it.
Then they went off the deep-end elsewhere.
Too much nightfight that several armies can basically ignore entirely or cause to be in play almost the entire game, a lot of putzing for assault oriented armies (reserves/disembarking/wound allocation changes), totally overboard on making vehicles ridiculously fragile and broke too much of the utility of transports, they put in challenge rules that are going to be used more for gamey-ness and removing characters from combats than anything else, the changes to CC weapons that cause a lot of already built and painted units to need to be broken/rebuilt/repainted, a ton of random new special rules and special rules changes that are basically "just because" changes without any real reason for them, and focused the game around gimmicks, highly random abilities/events, and forced "Michael Bay" moments more than fluff and tactical ability.
I've been playing this game for years, and 6E is the first time I've really not had much fun consistently and it not be the fault of a jerkwad opponent/boring matchup. This may change, but so far it's been gimmick abilities and random events that determine games more than anything else.
All in all...a wasted opportunity, no real advancement of 40k as a game or an experience, just different. A lot of good changes nullified by poorly executed additions, changes made for their own sake, lots of gimmickeyness and random-for-the-sake-of-randomness mechanics, etc. 5E was by *no* means perfect, neither was 4th, 3rd, 2nd or RT, it's just that 6E feels like an attempt to stamp out pet peeves of developers and enact childhood "house rules" more than an attempt to update the ruleset.
Last edited by Vaktathi; 24-07-2012 at 16:58.
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This.
6th still has PLENTY of abusable rules and the codexes are still the same mixed bag they've always been, but for like-minded groups of players I think 6th has the most potential of the latest 4 editions. Flyers being in the main ruleset is great, allies give a lot of ways to (re-)fluff up your army, the basic mission set even seems more varied than 4th/5th and is more manageable than trying to use the full set of book missions from 3rd. Wound abuse is at least more straightforward and weirdly sensible, as is *most* casualty removal (wait, where was the 3rd mortar's template again?). Vehicles and Infantry are now more of a choice than an edict, and I think we'll find a closer balance between shooting-heavy and assault-heavy than a lot of poeple are expecting once the dust settles.
All of that is wasted if you try to play with a bunch of people who just want to run min/maxed lists based on the gimmick of the month when you're not into that sort of thing, or you try to play with a bunch of people who just want to throw dice around and laugh when you're looking for a semi-serious challenge, but it wouldn't matter what game you were playing at that point.
If someone has enough money to field 9 flyers on top of everything else then let them! I'm not spending that amount of cash on something that won't be used half the time! 2-3 flyers at most, along with everything else and you'll have enough stuff on the shelf to have a well balanced force at any point game. flyers will probably be run at 1, maybe 2 per game as AA fire from ground units becomes available.
I like some rules, other seem a bit silly (wound allocation) I mean, take from the front? Seriously? Like no other bod in the unit could pick the flamer/plasma/missile launcher up? Too many fiddly "place models in order they need to die" rules bog games down - one that will probably be shunned eventually.
Well I like it so far I have some gripes but nothing too huge.
Pros
it seems to play faster
wound allocation makes more sense (at least to me)
vehicles power level feels right (hp are only earthshattering to kids that ran bunker lists)
Ap on CC weapons
Regrouping changes
Blast weapons getting better
1 weapon tanks becoming more effective and less durable at the same time
Unsure of
Fortifications seem underwhelming, but its early.
Cons
Challenges - Some of its disapointment because I like the ideal in principal, but so far it seems like a nerf to CC armies
fliers (mainly cause most armies don't have defenses yet) Kinda like to have the option during list building to trade krakk missiles for skyfire.
Allies (but mainly because nids don't get any with no benefit)
Fleet (much smaller benefit now)
That said you should pull out your foot guard and give it a try.
There are a few hiccups/growing pains when it comes to bringing old armies into the new edition... but overall I quite like what they did. It's different, it's interesting, and it shook up the meta (which desperately needed to be done).
Psychic powers are way more interesting, psychic defense (for the most part) is more fair across the board, terrain is actually interesting and not just a 4+ party, you actually need to place your boots on the ground to score objectives, etc. etc. etc. Lots of good stuff.
Still some junk out there.
Wound allocation is better in some ways (certainly more tactically-oriented with flanking, careful positioning, characters being able to use precision attacks) but still a bloody mess when it comes to the annoying all-character units like Nobz and Paladins...
I'm also pretty sick of 2+/2++/3++ characters with a re-roll standing out in front of a unit to soak all damage. With no way to block unit buff spells, this is a pretty damn aggrevating tactic at times unless you are way more mobile than the enemy.
Only if dinner and the movie were both of a high quality...
Not happy
Not happy, but not rage-quitting either.
After playing a few games, this is the stuff that bugs me the most:
- Pre-measuring - Slows things down, pulls me out of the game: "Let me just move them one inch back so they're in perfect range *measuring* no wait, one inch more, need to make sure I'm not being assaulted by that other unit *measuring*"
- Wound Allocation - Line of sight checking is even more tedious than it was in 5th, especially when combined with wound allocation: "The sergeant is closer man *looks* No it's not, it's the normal marine *looks* Well okay, I guess...roll for it? *looks again*"
- Power Mauls - The vast majority of your opponents will have a 3+ save. I hate having to cut off all my mauls, and feel further insulted by the idea that they're presented as being competitive with the other (real) power weapons.
- Little things - Competitive terrain distribution? Slow. Or worse: a narrative setup, but after you know what your deployment zone is going to be? The previous method was way more elegant. Not to mention the diagonal deployment method...very annoying placing one ruler across the entire table, and then use another to measure 12" from that line. Just doesn't work in practice.
They're all just annoying little things, but together they paint a picture of a chaotic ruleset. Can't imagine how the tournament scene is going to work with this...though I imagine its great for fluff and scenario players.
Last edited by Azulthar; 24-07-2012 at 16:10.
For me, 6th edition has two faces. The first is the face of the "casual/friendly" gamer. For this, 6th edition is truly a wonderful thing. A lot of problems were fixed, the meta is shaken up, the games are more dynamic and random, and overall has a more dramatic feel to it. A fluff bunny can now play an Ironwarrior list with traitor guard and their own fortress. It gives you even more freedom to make and play an army or foce that reflects the fluff.
Then there is the hard core/competative side. I don't mean to sound negative, but I think that we have not yet seen how ugly things are going to get. Dual FOC's and allies open the door for cherry picking and spam lists above and beyond what we have seen before. Just wait. Freedom and diversity always has a price, and players will always find combos that the developers missed and find a way to exploit it. Most of the current books and units were designed with the fail safe of being limited in how many you can take. No matter how over powered a unit was, you could only take 3 of them (barring troops of course). Now that has been doubled, and it has the possibility of ruining tournaments at the 2,000 point mark. Even at lower point games, the allies will have some potential for abuse. It's only a matter of time before we see several internet combo lists. Epi-deathguard lists are only the start.
Overall I like most of what 6th brings to the table. Some rules changes really screwed over some armies/lists (like my poor brother's awesome Hellion/WWP list), but over all it brought a lot. In fun games it's going to be great, but taken to extremes it can and will be abused.
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I love it , but it has a few sticking points.
Power mauls are a HUGE let down for me, Chaos and blunt objects go together so well, so I have to do a lot of clipping. Power lances are also a let down, so it's all swords and axes for me and that's boring to look at (Imagine a chaos lord on a bike with a daemonic lance). The other big issue is the Allies chart, the heavily favors SM and friends, besides Sisters of battle (poor sisters nobody likes them). My biggest gripe is the Allies chart lets the Loyal space marine armies get the Legions books chaos were promised a decade ago. I can play my counts as Night lords (blood angels) with my counts as World eaters (Space Wolves). It stings.....
Pre-measuring actually had the opposite effect in my experience, instead of people being indecisve they just measure, instead of eyeing it.
Wound allocation - Clear ties aren't that common with wound allocation.
Mauls - are actaully fairly decent the ap sucks but they're good vehicles
Terrain - we've skipped these rules for the most part and just keep setting up our tables like we used too, and yeah the diagonal setup is pain.
Someone actually griping about pre-measuring? Please don't defend GUESSING range as a skill that is necessary for a player to play the game.
Sure, it slows the game down(Slightl), but it makes these formidable warriors actually able to range find with their technology or experience to hit the enemy without falling short half an inch.
It also brings a sense of realism into this grand sci-fi/fantasy game, because I'm pretty sure weapons fired don't stop when they're just out of range. This way people will be attempting to fire when they are 100% in range, without their poor judgement in range or poor eye sight coming into the picture.
Random "guessing" was a mechanic for "gamey" machines in fantasy or other game systems. For such a basic gaming platform like 40k to have no measuring, that's always turned many, many people off and others simply grew into it not knowing any better.
Flames of War has always had pre-measuring and even the big games don't go over two hours. You can play fairly quickly with rules savvy players.
If games are slow, it's the players.
And on wound allocation, this isn't rocket science. A model is closer or it isn't. IF two models are side by side and exactly the same distance, roll off, flip a coin, wrestle for it. It won't happen very often.
All in all I've been reading some pretty flimsy reviews or gripes with 6th ED.
"Games will take a bit longer because of pre-measuring."
"Wound allocation requires dialogue with my opponent in case another model is also in range."
"AFV's aren't as powerful, what will I do with my 20-30 tanks now if infantry can maul them and rip them apart?"
"Allies are stupid."
Gamers DESPISE change more than moaning politicians.
The ruleset just came out. People will pick up their game play speed as the new rules soak in and less trips to the book are required.
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