Steam tank and dawn attack scenario

[AmaroK]

Today I have played against the Empire and we rolled the meeting engagament battle (edit: not dawn attack, my mistake). My rival got a 1 for the steam tank, so it came into play in his turn 1. The rules say (or at least thats what my rival said :P) that at the beggining of the turn you have to declare how much steam points are you goint to use and make a roll to see if they work properly or if it may have problems. Now the point is: if the tank were not in the table at the beggining of the turn (it comes in during the rest of movements phase), you can´t declare steam points and steam tank can do nothing but just enter into the board touching the edge? At least, thats how we played it, but not sure if that is the correct answer (if there is any). Have anybody come to this issue?

Also, about the steam tank: does it have to declare charges or its just random movement in one direction? if it is random movement, and you play the previous issue considering the tank can use steam points, you may come inside the board charging a unit, which sounds strange (but I guess possible).

P.D. An extra question we got during the game, not related to the steam tank: can waywatcher still deploy with no minimum distance to the enemy units if they are not in line of sight of the enemy units? and if not, where do I can find the rules preventing it?

Thanks all for the replys.

[Moss]

Am I missing something? Isn't Dawn Attack the one where you roll to see on which flank each unit is deployed? Are there rules for "reinforcements" in the scenario?

[AmaroK]

Am I missing something? Isn't Dawn Attack the one where you roll to see on which flank each unit is deployed? Are there rules for "reinforcements" in the scenario?

You are right, we mixed the names. After all, we don´t play with the english ruleset nor army books. It was meeting engament. Thanks for noting it out, Ill fix the introductory post.

[Moss]

Gotcha. Wasn't being picky; I don't really play with scenarios so my memory of the rules is just a bit fuzzy.

Two ways to look at it:
1)Reinforcements "may not march, but can otherwise participate in the game normally (my emphasis)" That last part tells me they can probably generate steam points.
2)The reinforcement "missed its opportunity to charge." That tells me that everything that happened in and prior to the 'declare charges' step is skipped. The steam tank may not generate steam points.

As a gamer, I like option one. As an interpreter of rules, I like option two.

(looking at p. 27 of the BRB, btw)

[hamsterwheel]

Hmmmm, I just looked back through the book. Reinforcements arrive during the Remaining Moves phase. If I recall, the Steamtank moves during the Compulsory move phase just like every other Random Movement model(Can someone clarify this? as I don't have the Empire book). This would mean that Random movement models are basically placed on the table with their back to the edge of the board but cannot move.

[Morax]

Moss has excellent points. When in doubt I always try to side with the option that lets players use their models. As it can otherwise participate in the game normally, I'd set the steamtank up with it's base touching the back of the table edge, declare steam points and resolve that step, and then use any steam points generated as normal. Does that follow the letter of the rules? No. I like to think that that would be the more fun alternative though.

[calnen]

Technically speaking you're probably right.

This came up once in a game when an opponent's Hellpit rolled a 1 and we let it move normally, but thinking about it it probably should have missed a go.

[MyNameDidntFit]

Moss has excellent points. When in doubt I always try to side with the option that lets players use their models. As it can otherwise participate in the game normally, I'd set the steamtank up with it's base touching the back of the table edge, declare steam points and resolve that step, and then use any steam points generated as normal. Does that follow the letter of the rules? No. I like to think that that would be the more fun alternative though.

I'd say this is certainly the way to go.

[AmaroK]

Gotcha. Wasn't being picky; I don't really play with scenarios so my memory of the rules is just a bit fuzzy.

Two ways to look at it:
1)Reinforcements "may not march, but can otherwise participate in the game normally (my emphasis)" That last part tells me they can probably generate steam points.
2)The reinforcement "missed its opportunity to charge." That tells me that everything that happened in and prior to the 'declare charges' step is skipped. The steam tank may not generate steam points.

As a gamer, I like option one. As an interpreter of rules, I like option two.

(looking at p. 27 of the BRB, btw)

Thats why I asked also if Steam tank has to declare charges or it operates like a HPA, with random movement and no charges. If its random movement, your option number one would leave the tank able to go in and charge, which is a bit unfair. On the other hand, not letting the Stank to move in the rest of movement phase, nor shoot, seems a bit unfair as well. I guess theres no right answer, but I wanted to know how people would do it.

[Moss]

Actually, just to be clear, option one doesn't allow the tank to charge. I assumed no charging was a given, so I didn't include the preceding sentence that explicitely disallowed it. So, option one allows the tank (in my eyes) to do everything but charge and march.

[dms505]

I vote to let it generate points regardless of whether it's on the table but it's still restricted to no charges and no shooting the turn it comes into play. While it doesn't actually declare a charge if the movement is random. I'd say this is one of those places where we have to make our own rule and just place it 1" away as if it has barely failed charge if it moved toward a unit. That way one side doesn't get hosed.

[hamsterwheel]

I guess I'm the only person concerned with the fact that Random movement occurs in the Compulsory movement sub-phase and reinforcements arrive during the Remaining movement sub-phase which is after the Compulsory. The reason why charges are restricted on a reinforcement arrival is because they arrive after the Charge sub-phase so why does anyone assume that a Random Movement model may move after it arrives because it's time to move has already passed. This applies to all random movement models, not just the steam tank.

[SilasOfTheLambs]

I guess I'm the only person concerned with the fact that Random movement occurs in the Compulsory movement sub-phase and reinforcements arrive during the Remaining movement sub-phase which is after the Compulsory. The reason why charges are restricted on a reinforcement arrival is because they arrive after the Charge sub-phase so why does anyone assume that a Random Movement model may move after it arrives because it's time to move has already passed. This applies to all random movement models, not just the steam tank.

This. At best, the tank should be able to generate points, and then use them to fire weapons (also the engineer if somebody misguidedly took the sniper rifle) but should not be able to move. This is kind of lame, but given how OP the random movement rules are in several other areas (no reactions, no LoS necessary, etc) my heart does not exactly bleed.