What exactly do we know about the Solar System?

[TheSaylesMan]

Anybody have some info on what the Solar System looks like in the 41st Millennium? I am aware of Terra, Luna, Mars, Titan, the various other moons of Saturn and the Jovian Shipyards but that leaves plenty of celestial bodies without any info. I took a quick look at Lexicanum and the only thing I learned was that Ben Counter's Galaxy in Flames apparently off-handedly mentioned that Uranus was colonized. I assume that means the moons of Uranus because the planet itself is a gas giant. That leaves quite a lot of empty space. Mercury, Venus, the Martian moons Phobos and Deimos, the Asteroid Belt, Ceres, Neptune and all the wonderful dwarf planets in the Kuiper Belt. I find Venus' absence from the fluff to be especially strange. I mean, its one of Terra's neighbors and it has similar size and density. I would have imagined that it would have been colonized or terraformed at some point and would have had a population density similar to Terra by now.

Any additional info would be greatly appreciated.

[Lord Damocles]

Phobos presumably has an Adeptsus Mechanicus presence. Phobos Worked in Adamant describes it as 'first moon of Mars... / A tiny tumbling thing, not even big enough to be spherical, pitted with craters like the scars of a pox' (Planetkill, pg.211), so perhaps there isn't too much there.

Deimos was moved to orbit Titan, and serves as a forge-moon for the Grey Knights (Codex: Grey Knights, pg.11).


EDIT: Lexicanum gives some information. References vary in quality.

[Zothos]

Terraforming Venus would not be worth it without a significant amount of handwavium involved.

I would guess that Metal bearing asteroids and other such bodies would have been mined to depletion probably before or during the Dark Age of Technology.

[MajorWesJanson]

Wasn't Pluto turned into a massive watch station?

[TheSaylesMan]

Terraforming Venus would not be worth it without a significant amount of handwavium involved.

I just read that they took Phobos out of orbit from around Mars and shoved it halfway across the system so that it orbits another MOON. Why couldn't they just build a space station or a Starfort or whatever 40k calls an artificial manned satellite? Because its 40k. At this point 40k is sprinkling handwavium over its morning cereal everyday. Its the Solar System. I can accept the fact that the Imperium does crazy, impractical things. Its the Imeprium. They are run by lunatics with both money and religious fanaticism to get away with any nonsense they want to get away with. If the High Lords of Terra declare that they want to turn the Moon into one giant gun, it would be shooting ships out of orbit in a century. I'm sure they could get away with something that Carl Sagan dreamed up in the 60's.

[AndrewGPaul]

...Uranus was colonized. I assume that means the moons of Uranus because the planet itself is a gas giant...

Or that it's populated by floating cities, Bespin-style.

[TheDungen]

yeah my first reaction was to tell you hoe stupid that idea was in the first place then i realised this id wh40k we're talking.

[Scalebug]

Ganymede, moon of Saturn, was "contaminated" by the Adeptus Mechanicus in a failed experiment with Warp-core reactors or something. It has been a throwaway line since 2d ed, mentioned to show of what the Squats were capable of that the A.M were not...

[Burnthem]

Remember that alot of the crazy ass stuff within the solar system (the movement of Phobos for example) may well have been done during the Golden Age of humanity for reasons that have long been lost. During that time perhaps shoving a moon across a few AU was markedly easier than constructing an equivalent sized space station. Or perhaps it was just a modern art thing...

[Lord Damocles]

Remember that alot of the crazy ass stuff within the solar system (the movement of Phobos for example) may well have been done during the Golden Age of humanity for reasons that have long been lost. During that time perhaps shoving a moon across a few AU was markedly easier than constructing an equivalent sized space station. Or perhaps it was just a modern art thing...

Deimos.
And it was moved post-Heresy, after the formation of the Grey Knights.

Terraforming of Mars (and presumably other planets/moons) would have been accomplished during the Golden Age though.

------------
Also, in high orbit above Terra, there is a repurposed asteroid, Apothis, which serves as an Ordo Xenos base (Hammer and Anvil, pg.21).

[El_Machinae]

The lack of Venus could be amusingly notable. Like, it's gone and lost to the mists of time. People in 40k don't even know it's gone!

[Endobai]

Mercury - nothing I could find.

Venus - "Nemesis" mentions its last forests and speaks about mansions built (on orbit?) there.

Although it is a hellworld right now with acid, hot atmosphere the planet might be possible to terraform with the right technology and since it is almost Earth's twin it would be pretty reasonable option considering that according to the Wh40k fluff star travell was possible only on slow, generation ships for centuries before reliable warp-capable transports were designed.

Terra, Luna and Mars - everyone knows.

The asteroid belt - I'm not sure if anything detailed was written, but remember something about mining stations and structures like those.

Jupiter - (orbital) forge world - super-shipyard nr two after Martian iron ring.

Saturn - plenty of information available in several sources.

Uranus, Neptune - honestly more was said about Venus.

Pluto - curently reduced to a dwarf planet so who cares. Similar with all those small worlds further away from the Sun, but possibilities are numerous - from weapon stations to secret bases or just mines for ever hungry forges of Mars and Jupiter.


In my opinion Venus and Mercury have some potential to develop; very little was said before so something might be added without too many problems with existing fluff, in the HH series for example. We will see what those BL writes give us in the coming years.

[TheSaylesMan]

That was very informative, thank you. The snippet from Nemesis about Venus was especially interesting. It sounds like the planet was terraformed back in the Golden/Dark Age of Technology and perhaps by the time of the Great Crusade the planet was falling apart back to its original state. Or maybe they just reduced it to an industrial hellscape by the time of the Heresy. That would be a funny turn of events. A Death World right in the Solar System. Perhaps the Venusians would raise some formidable Guard regiments. Terra is an Adeptus Non world so they wouldn't have any regiments raised there except for the local Planetary Defense Force. Venus could very well be the place where they raise their armies for the system. It seems like every world in the Solar System is staked out for one Imperial Organization in specific. Adeptus Administratum get Terra, Adeptus Mechanicus get Mars, the Imperial Navy gets Jupiter, the Inquisition gets Saturn. The Astartes get Phalanx whenever it is in the system. The Guard getting Venus would be a wholly welcome addition to the fluff in my mind.

[AndrewGPaul]

Actually, Earth does supply regiments to the Guard - one of them fought at third Armageddon.

It is a hive world after all, so it's got plenty of population to spare.

[TheSaylesMan]

Actually, Earth does supply regiments to the Guard - one of them fought at third Armageddon.

It is a hive world after all, so it's got plenty of population to spare.

I have taken a look through the list of forces present at the Third War for Armageddon as recorded by Lexicanum and there is no mention of any Terran Regiments. I did find mention of the Terran Praefects though. Specifically the 5th Armored Terran Praefects. They are mentioned as a throw away regiment that was destroyed in the second 3rd Edition Chaos Codex. It also lists their homeworld as Unknown strangely enough. I would think it is more likely that they are from Nova Terra (the planet responsible for the "Time of Two Imperiums") seeing as the writers have gone out of their way to declare Terra as Adeptus Non and thus exempt from having to raise regiments.

That or its just another one of those strange little contradictions in the fluff that crop up sometimes because of different writers working against each other through ignorance.

[aim]

Venus - "Nemesis" mentions its last forests and speaks about mansions built (on orbit?) there.

Although it is a hellworld right now with acid, hot atmosphere the planet might be possible to terraform with the right technology and since it is almost Earth's twin it would be pretty reasonable option considering that according to the Wh40k fluff star travell was possible only on slow, generation ships for centuries before reliable warp-capable transports were designed.

Honestly, why would you terraform Venus? Scientists reckon it rains diamonds there (or hails?). Granted it may be hot and full of acidic atmosphere, but I know women who soul happily be confined in an armoured dome and risk certain death to live somewhere it rains (hails?) diamonds!

[AndrewGPaul]

I have taken a look through the list of forces present at the Third War for Armageddon as recorded by Lexicanum and there is no mention of any Terran Regiments.

Well, that's easily explained; Lexicanum's missed something. Page 70 of the Epic Armageddon rulebook (page 13 of this PDF) has a list of Imperial and Ork forces present during the Third War for Armageddon, and it lists 10 regiments of Terran Praefects.

I would think it is more likely that they are from Nova Terra (the planet responsible for the "Time of Two Imperiums") seeing as the writers have gone out of their way to declare Terra as Adeptus Non and thus exempt from having to raise regiments.

Exempt, but not prohibited. Macragge is also Adeptus Non, but that doesn't stop them supplying regiments to the Guard.

Also, wouldn't Nova Terran regiments be "Nova Terran Praefects"?

[Scalebug]

Have also always assumed that regiment to be actual Terrans, though it is plasible they could be a regiment originally raised during the Great Crusade, and then out of tradition keeping the name for 10.000 years, even though they have been re-raised with troops from other worlds over and over again. Being from Terra sounds like something people would like to lay claim to..

[Loqe]

Terraforming Venus would not be worth it without a significant amount of handwavium involved.

Actually Venus is theorised to be capable of being terraformed with our current level of technology, although we wouldn't see any benefits to doing so for several hundred years. If you place a solar mirror (think big reflective parachute) about 15 kilometers in diameter in orbit over Venus you would reflect enough heat to lower to the temperature of the atmosphere so that the heavier elements wouldn't have the energy to remain floating about and they'd settle on the surface. With the density of the atmosphere reduced, it would retain less heat and further elements would settle, which would reduce heat retention further, and so on and so on. A reverse greenhouse effect. Without the heavy atmosphere the crushing pressure would also be alleviated.

Also you could colonise Venus without doing any of that. Venus sports the closest atmosphere to Earth anywhere in the solar system - 50km up in the Venusian sky. It has virtually the same temperature and pressure as Earth, and oxygen acts as a lifting gas on Venus so you could fill a zepplin with the stuff and it would float. With you inside it. You could step out into the bracing Venusian atmosphere with nothing but an oxygen mask if you really wanted, although the dilute sulphuric acid might sting a little.

Of course this is the fantastical grimdark 40k we're talking about. The Imperium would probably colonise Venus by exterminatusing it so hard it would make Venus so bad that reality would have a buffer overflow and the planet would wrap around to become livable.

[The bearded one]

Actually Venus is theorised to be capable of being terraformed with our current level of technology, although we wouldn't see any benefits to doing so for several hundred years. If you place a solar mirror (think big reflective parachute) about 15 kilometers in diameter in orbit over Venus you would reflect enough heat to lower to the temperature of the atmosphere so that the heavier elements wouldn't have the energy to remain floating about and they'd settle on the surface. With the density of the atmosphere reduced, it would retain less heat and further elements would settle, which would reduce heat retention further, and so on and so on. A reverse greenhouse effect. Without the heavy atmosphere the crushing pressure would also be alleviated.

Also you could colonise Venus without doing any of that. Venus sports the closest atmosphere to Earth anywhere in the solar system - 50km up in the Venusian sky. It has virtually the same temperature and pressure as Earth, and oxygen acts as a lifting gas on Venus so you could fill a zepplin with the stuff and it would float. With you inside it. You could step out into the bracing Venusian atmosphere with nothing but an oxygen mask if you really wanted, although the dilute sulphuric acid might sting a little.

Of course this is the fantastical grimdark 40k we're talking about. The Imperium would probably colonise Venus by exterminatusing it so hard it would make Venus so bad that reality would have a buffer overflow and the planet would wrap around to become livable.

I did not know that, that's definately interesting. We'd probably first give Mars a try, but it's nice to know there are 2 planets presently in our solar system that we'd have a hell's chance of terraforming.
We'd need to import a heck of a lot of water though.

But if this is the case, then I can easily imagine Venus to have been terraformed very, very early in human history. Mars was terraformed as early as the 22nd century (as soon as 2100 actually, according to lexicanum), and mankind did not really start leaving the solar system to colonise other planets untill M15 (apparently they did start to expand using 'ohnyl cylinders' in M3, but these colonies never made contact), so in those 12.000 years no doubt an effort would have been made to colonise more territory in the solar system. Not being a triggerhappy Imperium yet, mankind during the age of Terra and the dark age of technology may have used such scientific principles to render a planet habitable, which I had never before guessed would be possible.

As far as 40K goes, I find this imaginary timeline of space exploration in- and outside the solar system, to be a very believable one. Stuff doesn't "just happen" at the drop of a hat, it took millenia, and sub-light exploration centuries to go anywhere.