Warding staff and accepting challenges

[Pooky]

Is a Warding staff a suitable piece of war gear to give a character (Sergeant/ Brother Captain/ Librarian/ etc). I am thinking it has the ability to withstand most of the hardest hitting attacks an opponent models can throw out if the model with the Staff is challenged. I doubt it will stop a Khorn-ite Terminator Lord with a Daemon Weapon, but it will most likely stall the monster infantry killer CSM lord while the Staff weilding models bodyguard/ unit attempts to mop up the attacked CSM lords unit...

What do you think?

[Abaddonshand]

It's brilliant on librarians running divination if you roll power 5, which allows the rerolling of failed saves (not to mention misses and failed to wound rolls!). On the GM and Bro-Capt it's too expensive given they have a 3++ in cc anyway. On justicars, a halberd will win you more challenges.

[purge the daemon]

i find it great on librarians, paladins and i am testing it out on terminators use the guy to stall there nob or force him not to attack.

[Mandragola]

It's an awesome weapon for non-characters. One purifier should carry one of these. Then in combat, so long as he gets into base contact, you can take all the power weapon hits on him. It's a very powerful abuse of the stupid new wound allocation rules.

Last weekend I fought out a long challenge between a termie sergeant with claws and a knight of the flame with warding staff. It kept my deathwing command squad locked for a turn, but eventually my sergeant won. Still a great tarp it option.

[Pooky]

So what you're saying is I should nominate all power weapon/ AP 3 or higher saves to the non-character Warding Staff model? Interesting...

That raises a question for me: Can you take an inv save if the weapon you are being struck with is not a power weapon? I believe the Warding Staff gives the model a 2++ save. So is there anything that says you can pick which save you want to take against each wound?

[smileyface]

That raises a question for me: Can you take an inv save if the weapon you are being struck with is not a power weapon? I believe the Warding Staff gives the model a 2++ save. So is there anything that says you can pick which save you want to take against each wound?

Yes. You can only make an invulnerable "if it is the best save available"... which it will be if it's 2++.

[Mandragola]

I probably wouldn't risk him against non-power weapon hits though. Remember he costs double a normal purifier and is half as likely to die, so there's no real win for you there. You want him there when I1 comes around and people start waving thunder hammers around.

[Enigma6]

I'm generally with you that the model carrying the staff should be a non-character, but there is one thing to consider about giving it to the leader.

As the rules currently stand, if a character refuses a challange they can't attack and, from a fluff perspective, they are described as 'hanging around at the back' BUT the model is never actually moved to the back.
They can still count as being the closest model if they are in BTB, and can still have wounds allocated to them.

In that case, if the staff is best used in a challange to hold up a choppy character, you issue/accept the challange. If the staff is best used out of the challange to protect the squad, you refuse the challange and just allocate to the staff anyway. Plus then you have mild LoS protection for the staff wielder as well.

I personally hope this gets FAQd out as it is completely unfluffy. A model refusing a challange should in all respects count as the furthest model away. However, while it is still the rules, it might as well get used.

[Pooky]

As the rules currently stand, if a character refuses a challange they can't attack and, from a fluff perspective, they are described as 'hanging around at the back' BUT the model is never actually moved to the back.
They can still count as being the closest model if they are in BTB, and can still have wounds allocated to them.

I had never thought of that. That is so sneaky...

[Mandragola]

That's certainly worth thinking about Enigma6.

So far, my plan is to give halberds to Justicars. In a challenge he either kills the enemy or he dies and only gives up one wound. The way people are using fists in this meta it looks like you are likely to see far fewer of them on sergeants anyway, and get power weapons, lightning claws and the like. Halberd is sort of king of these. If they do have a fist then you either (hopefully, probably) kill them with the halberd, or if there's no challenge the hits go on your warding stave anyway. Obviously, warding stave in challenge against fist is sort of the perfect set up. But, hmm.

There's also the danger of perils. GK players are used to losing justicars to this, and losing the warding stave sucks.

[Pooky]

There's also the danger of perils. GK players are used to losing justicars to this, and losing the warding stave sucks.

That is another good point to consider.

I think I will give my squad swords and have a regular brother a warding staff. I'm not looking to micro manage power game. I'm building an army to look pretty. That and the GK chapter symbol is a sword and a book, not a halberd.

[Infidel]

I'm building an army to look pretty. That and the GK chapter symbol is a sword and a book, not a halberd.

I salute you sir.

[Stezerok]

I think if you have the points, Staves on our "sergeants" makes for a pretty brutal challenger. Let's also not forget that that becomes a 2++ rerollable with 5 or more guys watching. I'd also like to point out that with options like: Empyrean Brain Mines, Master-Crafting, and Digital Weapons, we can seriously tool to be the kings of challenges, and this is no joking matter. Being masters of challenges allows us to mitigate incoming damage from enemy sergeants, and snipe characters we want dead.