Black Orc Hording - Yay or Nay?

[SimaoSegunda]

Hi Folks!

My all-comers 2.4k OnG list has a 40-strong unit of Blorcs. They are far and away the stars of the army, having taken out no fewer than 3 hydras in 2 games, smashed units of flamers out of buildings twice in successive turns, and generally brought the pain to anyone they fight against. I have a couple of fanatic-loaded NG units who usually take guard duty to deter flankers (I make no secret of the fact both units are fanatic-stuffed, to discourage flank charges), as my Bus of Blorcs obviously has long flanks. However, I'm wondering whether it is worth switching them to a horde formation. They are very destructive, but I fear the loss of rank bonuses, although I do think the extra damage they can cause might outweigh this. I tend to run them basic, without shields (Every point is precious!). The only boost they get is a Blorc Big Boss with a Gold Sigil Sword (Heh!) and the talisman that gives a 6+ ward against war machines.

Does anyone have any tips?

[snottlebocket]

Hording stops being 100% efficient once you drop under 30. With that in mind I don't like hording anything that can't lose at least 3 or so ranks before dropping under 30.

Killing monsters and skirmishers is hardly an accomplishment for any infantry unit, never mind an expensive one like that.

[SimaoSegunda]

Well, in their defence, there isn't usually a lot else for them to go at, especially against the daemons I faced when my Night Goblins and war machines decimated his Bloodletters, my wolfriders tore his seekers apart, and his Pink Horrors stood right at the back of the board.

You can only beat what's put in front of you.

[papabearshane]

The best thing to do with them is......"Both!........It all depends on the unit your facing.

Say your hitting a Plague Rats unit with the bell and the crazy re-roll hit and wounds banner, keep them in a buss as you will be able to hit the furnace with your front ranks and still limit the attacks back and keep steadfast.

Agenst a hord of State Troopers or anything squish like that you can hord for more attacks and 2 choppas.

It realy all depends on weather you think you can win the combat or will be taking a steadfast test.

[snottlebocket]

Well, in their defence, there isn't usually a lot else for them to go at, especially against the daemons I faced when my Night Goblins and war machines decimated his Bloodletters, my wolfriders tore his seekers apart, and his Pink Horrors stood right at the back of the board.

You can only beat what's put in front of you.

I wasn't harping on them. They are a decent unit. There's just a time and a place for hording and most of the time you don't want hordes that don't have the numbers to maintain full horde efficiency. The exceptions are units with such a high combat potential per model that it's worth giving up ranks for. Black orcs are not that kind, no matter how hard they hit, they still only attack once per model.

[SimaoSegunda]

True, although the Extra Hand Weapons mean it's like having 4 ranks fighting. I suppose again it depends on opponents. I suppose I could always Horde at the start, then use combat reforms to bus up if I need to.

[russellmoo]

Thumbs up to going horde then reforming if you need the ranks-

[Malorian]

I all for hording them.

They are your hardest hitting unit so why wouldn't you want more attacks? Getting that extra rank to take away steadfast is usually done by just killing more guys anyway, and I would much rather have more dead enemy

[Jal]

If you're looking to play in the UK tourney scene, they're not worth hording as they'll either only end up fighting 2-3 units of chaff a game, or will get hit in the face with something like Mindrazored Corsairs in which case they evaporate anyway.

Most UK players seem to be steering clear of Black Orcs - a shame as the models are nice and the rules are decent, it's just that there are better units/builds in the book

[Malorian]

Also in the UK you see a lot more comp, such as units being limited to 400 points, which doesn't allow you to get enough models to make an effective horde.

[Graxy]

Normally, the preferd O&G main unit is 30+ savage orc big un's since they put out more damage, have a more reliable save and are cheaper (points wise and money wise). The only ownside is aniimosity, which is easily stopped by a black orc characterand not making them the closest thing to another animosity sufferer.

Malorian's right about UK comp but just wanted to point out that in most cases it's been raised to 450pts so it alllows a bit more flexibility.

[SimaoSegunda]

Oh, I know they're not an ideal tournament unit, and that Savage Orcs are a more viable horde unit, but I play for fun, and I just really enjoy my Black Orc unit. I just want to use that particular unit as well as I can. I'm in two minds about lavishing more Character spend on the unit, but since very few people actually try and pick out characters in units in my local meta, I keep the BSB in my Night Gobbos, and (again for fluff and fun reasons) have my Warboss on a Wyvern.

I'm finding myself winning far more than I'm losing, which suggests my balance isn't far wrong for the setting in which I play. Indeed, since I've started with the Warboss-Wyvern and the 40 Blorcs, I've won Crushing Victories in all 4 games, playing Lizards, DE, Skaven and Daemons. But I still want to improve on a winning formula.

[Malorian]

It's not a matter of one being better than the other. You can only have one unit of savage big uns, so once you have them your second horde needs to be one of the runner ups (black orcs, trolls, squig herd)

[SilasOfTheLambs]

Whenever you have a unit that could go either way, my practice has been to run them in the narrower formation. Remember, once you're in combat, you can reform to get wider, but not narrower.

[SimaoSegunda]

Is that right? RAW it looks like a combat reform CAN go narrower, unless you're fighting an enemy who is also hoarding. If you've got a horde against a bus, you can combat-reform into a bus, because you'll have had 5 models actually in base contact, and after the reform you'll have 5 models in base contact. Am I wrong?

[Malorian]

Whenever you have a unit that could go either way, my practice has been to run them in the narrower formation. Remember, once you're in combat, you can reform to get wider, but not narrower.

Unless of course your reduced attacks mean that you lost combat and then broke...

Although I guess with the extra ranks you could have held thanks to steadfast and then you could get those extra attacks in the next round, without the choppa rule... and minus all the guys that died...

[Blinder]

Is that right? RAW it looks like a combat reform CAN go narrower, unless you're fighting an enemy who is also hoarding. If you've got a horde against a bus, you can combat-reform into a bus, because you'll have had 5 models actually in base contact, and after the reform you'll have 5 models in base contact. Am I wrong?

From what I understand, you can do anything you want (that you'd normally be able to do, at least), except you may not reduce the number of models that are fighting. So, if you're 10-wide against 5-wide, you could drop down to 7-wide (the b2b and then the 'corner' models, they do count as in the fight, yes?) but you can't go all the way down to 5-wide (so you're not going to pick up much in the way of ranks)?