Some nooby warhammer questions.

[warboss6820]

I am sorry for the noobiness of these questions but I have always wanted to know.
1)Is nagash alive? Or well his equvilence of it. the 8th edition army books seem to be pointing at different things.The vampire book says hes plotting to reture to the world in a bold way while the tomb kings book says Arkan the Black is attempting to reserect his master. Finally the orc book hints at azhags crown being nedded to reserect nagash.

2) also who is Kadon. Some books say he is a ancient necromancer who bore nagash's crown before he was killed by savage orcs, his followers brought it north and azhag found it in troll country.But the rulebook says he was the greatest beast wizard and was killed in the form as a manticore right? Is that two different people who share the same name OR did the beast wizard corrupt to become a necromancer?

[The bearded one]

1: Nagash was "killed" once, by the Nehekharan king Alcadizaar, but eventually resurrected himself and attacked the empire, when Sigmar killed him again in the year 15. 1666 years later Nagash resurrected again, on what was known as "the night of the living dead' in 1681, when the dead rose throughout the old world. This event is mentioned in several timelines. Since 1681 Nagash has not been killed by anybody anymore, so he should still be alive, thereby making all those references to 'bringing back Nagash' look pretty silly. In short; we have no idea what's going on!

2: Might be 2 people with the same name. The shaman Kadon was a necromancer.

[Ultimate Life Form]

Well, these are very sophisticated 'noob' questions indeed!

1: Yep, Nagash is 'alive' and kicking. I think those references (I don't have the English books so I don't know for sure) are more alluding to bringing Nagash back to full power again, for at the moment he's pretty much an embittered old man who sat on his throne in Nagashizzar for several hundred years without as much as lifting a finger wondering why everyone hates him. Only with his Crown (and his hand) will he be brought back into the world, and Arkhan the Black probably wants to retrieve those in one way or the other.

2: Might be 2 different people. It happens. There was also a Bretonnian Queen as far as I remember that had the same name as a different person. Or it might be the same people. After all Kadon had a life before being a Necromancer, too. Or it might be one of these cases of 'la la, it's all legend, no one knows what really happened, well certainly not the guys who wrote this stuff'.

[Arnizipal]

After all Kadon had a life before being a Necromancer, too.

Yes, but it was in Mourkain.
Kadon was the one who founded that city after he recovered the Crown of Sorcery and the body of Alcadizzaar.

[Lord Zarkov]

I kind of like the idea that both Kadon's are the same, he was after all a Shaman of some power before he discovered the Crown of Sorcery - who's to say he didn't specialise in the wind of Ghur?

Especially if it makes the Scrolls of Binding developed with Nagash's aid (or rather with the aid of the part of Nagash in the Crown) - making magic scrolls to bind monsters to his will seems just like the kind of thing that's up Nagash's street, and it reinforces his 'fingers in many pies' thing as a background character responsible for many great events. Perhaps the knowledge to create more scrolls remains within the Crown, and he will be able to use it to great effect should he ever regain it.

With regards to where Nagash is, he should be chilling in Nagashizzar. In WA:Undead he has just been sitting there sleeping, too lethargic to do anything until spurred into action. Apparently dying too many times and losing his crown and claw has sapped him of much of his power and wit.

[Arnizipal]

I kind of like the idea that both Kadon's are the same, he was after all a Shaman of some power before he discovered the Crown of Sorcery - who's to say he didn't specialise in the wind of Ghur?

It fit better in the past when necromancers could wield Dark Magic, and the Transformation of Kadon was a Dark Magic spell

With regards to where Nagash is, he should be chilling in Nagashizzar. In WA:Undead he has just been sitting there sleeping, too lethargic to do anything until spurred into action. Apparently dying too many times and losing his crown and claw has sapped him of much of his power and wit.

Nagash didn't have his hand or his crown when he went up into the Empire in Sigmar's time.
Of course he has died an extra time meanwhile. This could have done permanent damage...

[Moss]

1: Yep, Nagash is 'alive' and kicking. I think those references (I don't have the English books so I don't know for sure) are more alluding to bringing Nagash back to full power again, for at the moment he's pretty much an embittered old man who sat on his throne in Nagashizzar for several hundred years without as much as lifting a finger wondering why everyone hates him.

I remember one of those little short stories in the 5th ed Undead army book about some thief breaking into Nagash's throne room. Nagash sits there motionless and watches as the thief approaches, not knowing that the necromancer is even alive. It basically described him as just that: a crotchety old man who is too tired/can't work up the energy to get up and do anything. And the only reason Nagasah ends up killing the thief is because he mutters the name Sigmar under his breath; he was otherwise content to just let the thief go about his business.

I haven't read anything to suggest things have changed, but back in those days, you could take Nagash as your general (unsurprisingly, GW is still struggling to get rid of those models). Maybe things are different. Who knows?

[warboss6820]

the necromancer kadon was slain by savage orcs in a waaagh to reclaim the badlands for da orcs somewhere between -1020 and -1000. His crown was brought north to troll country by hos surviing disiples where it was found by azhag. The other kadon might have worked for the collage becaue in the storm of magic book teclis refers to him as the creator of the scrolls of binding because of his mind which was primitive. So he could be refering to his most adept amber wizard student or he could he acting as a historian telling the students of a famous figure because of his creation of the scrolls. Right?

[ArtificerArmour]

Pretty sure it is the same kadon. People can master several forms of magic, and people were just better at things in the past.

Yes, Kadon wrote the scrolls AND made the transformation spell. He did other stuff too (Much like Wyssan, he made wildform and invented some nifty dice too )

[Lord Zarkov]

the necromancer kadon was slain by savage orcs in a waaagh to reclaim the badlands for da orcs somewhere between -1020 and -1000. His crown was brought north to troll country by hos surviing disiples where it was found by azhag. The other kadon might have worked for the collage becaue in the storm of magic book teclis refers to him as the creator of the scrolls of binding because of his mind which was primitive. So he could be refering to his most adept amber wizard student or he could he acting as a historian telling the students of a famous figure because of his creation of the scrolls. Right?

He can't have worked for the Amber College as the Scrolls of Binding are supposed to be ancient, existing long before the Great War against Chaos, which was when the colleges were founded (by Teclis)

[TheDungen]

It seem logical, Kadon saw (or learned later from the crown) what binding the dead did to nagash so he tried a different approach, binding living beings instead. then he also crates the spells to bind demons and undead so yeah i'll say he was a necromancer to some extent.

[Craze_b0i]

2) also who is Kadon. Some books say he is a ancient necromancer who bore nagash's crown before he was killed by savage orcs, his followers brought it north and azhag found it in troll country.But the rulebook says he was the greatest beast wizard and was killed in the form as a manticore right? Is that two different people who share the same name OR did the beast wizard corrupt to become a necromancer?

On the way north his followers got killed by Sigmar I believe. Sigmar than had it for a while then lost it (forget how) and only then after that it ended up at Troll Country.

edit: just checked and this bit has been rewritten (liber Necris & old Vampire Counts book). Kadon got killed by a vamp called Ursoran. Ursoran in turn gets killed by an orc shaman called 'Red Eye'. The Crown makes 'Red Eye' go mad and he wanders north to get killed by Sigmar.

[Athelassan]

The 4th ed Undead book had Kadon killed by orcs, and the Crown was taken from his body by his disciple Morath, who headed north. There (after an unspecified period of time) he was killed by Sigmar. The sequence depicting this was just about the only good thing in Empire (imo).

Other sources start screwing around with the chronology and introduce Ushoran to the narrative, although previously Strigos and Mourkhain had been separate entities. I think I prefer it that way, to be honest, but it doesn't make a huge amount of difference.

Sigmar ordered the Crown placed under lock and key in Altdorf: it's not entirely clear how it escaped and ended up in the hands of Azhag, but I guess there's a couple of thousand years' worth of war and forgetfulness for some skint Altdorf prince or greedy court official to pawn/steal it, etc.

[TheDungen]

Are we totally sure its the same crown?

[Athelassan]

I've only ever seen reference to one Crown of Sorcery. I'm pretty sure it was the intention for it to be the same, anyway.

[Ultimate Life Form]

Well, it's pretty clear that Azhag's crown indeed was actually Nagash's crown. As such it has to be the same, unless Nagash had two crowns... but then again, he had two hands, too!

[The bearded one]

Well, it's pretty clear that Azhag's crown indeed was actually Nagash's crown. As such it has to be the same, unless Nagash had two crowns... but then again, he had two hands, too!

He got killed twice too maybe he made a new one, which was then taken when Sigmar killed him in the year 15 ic.

[Craze_b0i]

Sigmar ordered the Crown placed under lock and key in Altdorf: it's not entirely clear how it escaped and ended up in the hands of Azhag, but I guess there's a couple of thousand years' worth of war and forgetfulness for some skint Altdorf prince or greedy court official to pawn/steal it, etc.

When we consider it I think this plot hole came about because the original Empire book was released a long way before the Undead book. Really it was the job of the 6th-edition Empire writer to fill in the hole. Instead he didn't mention the Sigmar vs Nagash war at all, and Empire army-books have refused to describe it ever since.

Maybe the TOL series has something to tell us what Sigmar did with the thing...

[Lord Zarkov]

When we consider it I think this plot hole came about because the original Empire book was released a long way before the Undead book. Really it was the job of the 6th-edition Empire writer to fill in the hole. Instead he didn't mention the Sigmar vs Nagash war at all, and Empire army-books have refused to describe it ever since.

Maybe the TOL series has something to tell us what Sigmar did with the thing...

Given the angsting in the Sigmar books about Sigmar storing the Crown under Altdorf, and the devastation caused by Nagash's armies (and how Sigmar himself barely defeated him), I wouldn't be surprised if Sigmar took the Crown with him on his final journey - with him gone I can see him thinking that it's safer for the Empire if it's lost somewhere far to the North, rather than sitting under the capital city, waiting for Nagash to return.

[Arnizipal]

I could see that happening. That would fit in really nice