Weakest BRB Lore?

[Moss]

Metal is very very situational. Fire lacks punch compared to most lores. Heavens is alright but other lores outclass it.

This is what does it for me. Even those "situational" lores are better in my eyes because they're situational. It's "situational," but I have a use for Metal. It's not bad in any situation really, but I don't have a use for Fire because in almost every situation, there is another lore I'd rather have.

[NitrosOkay]

You'll see level 2's with Beasts all the time just because the signature is good.

You don't see that generally with metal or fire.

[Rudra34]

I use metal all the time to great success. The sig spell and golden hounds are situational, but glittering scales and enchanted blades are both incredible buffs. Couple that with a killer 6th spell and some decent debuffs, and it is a well rounded, fun to use lore. Also, if you get stuck up against an army that DOES have a lot of high armor units, then you can just wreck them.

[tmarichards]

I'd have to say Lore of Life, on the grounds that unless you have the entire lore (and often even then) it's just way too easy to play against- unless you're playing completely uncomped Warhammer, at which Dwellers becomes a good spell. However, every lore has good spells in the right circumstance- Life magic is pretty good on points denial lists, and Heavens is awesome on Brets- so it's not a case of "this lore is bad" it's more a case of "this lore is less good".

If I could create my own deck of spells I'd probably go with:

0. Wildform (best spell in the game hands down. Easy to cast and you're guaranteed to get it without Loremaster. In a lot of situations, it's like a Mindrazor that makes you harder to kill)
1. Pha's
2. Flaming Sword
3. Soulblight
4. Doom and Darkness
5. Flame Cage
6. Mindrazor

[Rosstifer]

I'd have to say Lore of Life, on the grounds that unless you have the entire lore (and often even then) it's just way too easy to play against- unless you're playing completely uncomped Warhammer, at which Dwellers becomes a good spell.

Yeah I'd probably agree there, at the very least it's gratuitously overrated. Whenever I play it I just go all out stopping Throne and the rest does very little.

[tmarichards]

I actually go the other way around, I usually let people have Throne of Vines and stop Flesh to Stone then dispel Throne in my own magic phase.

[Rosstifer]

Our local Wood Elf and Empire players take it almost exclusively, I'm not fussed about them being T5 as pretty much my whole army is S5, haven't found it makes much of a difference.
Plus, I want to cast my own spells in my Magic phase (Often Soulblight, which negates half of flesh to stone anyway).

They 6 dice Dwellers alot too, which doesn't bother me too much with a S4 army, knights get S5 pretty easily from a Warshrine.

[Why]

Beasts is a great lore.

Wyssan's nothing more to be said.
Crow thing, well very bad but atleast it has good range
Pann's, situational but can help keep squishy characters alive.
Amber spear, awesome spell great for non cannon armies.
Curse of anraheir has potential to do as much damage dwellers. Especially if you play it right with open ground counting as terrain. + crazy good range.
Savage beast, situational but the boosted version cast on 3 characters is awesome.
Transformation, mountain chimera kicks ****.

My vote goes to fire, but metal wasn't far behind.

[Lord Dan]

I actually go the other way around, I usually let people have Throne of Vines and stop Flesh to Stone then dispel Throne in my own magic phase.

I stop throne just so my opponent has a major risk of miscasting if he wants to 5-dice dwellers.

[tmarichards]

That's certainly true, but the miscast table is so forgiving that it rarely does anything they're worried about- and if it does, most lists that would be affected by losing their level 4 or D3 wizard levels carry an Earthing Rod.

[NitrosOkay]

Dispelling throne in your own phase seems like a painful loss of power dice but then again I play Vampires.

[mostlyharmless]

I can't say I've ever seen a use for Lore of Heavens. Lore of Metal, on the other hand, is awesome. You can make some great synergy with other army features while using Lore of Metal, which is why I use it with Dark Elves.

[Rosstifer]

That's certainly true, but the miscast table is so forgiving that it rarely does anything they're worried about- and if it does, most lists that would be affected by losing their level 4 or D3 wizard levels carry an Earthing Rod.

It's a little less forgiving with Puppet. .

[Lord Dan]

It's a little less forgiving with Puppet. .

...and to people who aren't me.

My wizards eat warp every time!!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

I've seen a few of these polls for the strongest lore, but never for the weakest. Please take a moment to answer the poll, above.

There is no weakest lore. Of course some spells and lores are better in certain circumstances but I don't think that detracts from my statement. Everyone who say Fire is weak should try its S4 hits instead of Dweller's or Pit for a change when he's up against T3.

Fire is one of the most useful lores in fact. Some enemies ignore your armour, some aren't affected by your increased WS or Ini, and some don't care if they move d3 less. There's always something that you can throw a fireball at. The Lore also covers two bases I consider essential: It has a very good magic missiles to clear away skirmishers and other chaff (Shades in a building anyone?) and it provides flaming attacks.

Heavens is much underrated as well. The Comet does a little less damage than other big spells but is only 12 (!). Re-rolling 1's with Imperial Knights is pretty cool, and so is having those Killing Blowers re-roll their 6's.

I'm going to be my normal self and say that all the rulebook loresthis edition are broken (By this, I mean that they are by far better than any of the army specific lores, the only ones coming close to being as good being the skaven lores and the daemon lores).

I'm not sure that is true. The AB lores are often just a wee bit weaker. In addition to the two you've named, HE, DE, CW, Vamps and Empire all have very useful spells, many of them devastating or just plain cheap to cast.

[Jind_Singh]

Surprised at the sheer amount of votes lore of fire got - there are more worse lores than fire!! I love fire!!!!

[ArtificerArmour]

I second LSP, my beasts would kill for metal and fire, yet beasts work really well with them.

I think metals an underated lore. Ive found, even against my beasts, it causes problems.

Id probably say light is the worst.

[SkawtheFalconer]

Beasts is a great lore.

Agree completely - Beasts is my fave lore (particularly for my Wood Elves). Wyssans is fantastic, Anraheir is hugely underrated (losing a third of the unit vs pinning a unit in place is a really tough decision - tell anyone who claims open ground isn't terrain to get stuffed), and Amber Spear is a great way to deal with big stuff (of which there seems to be more and more in 8th ed).

Savage Beast and Pann's Pelt can be useful situationally, Crow spell is OK. I'm not a fan of transformation, as it's too easy with steadfast to just dispel in opponents turn and then have a weedy wizard in combat (or have a chimera overrun, and be shot to pieces when transformed back to a weedy Wiz), but Beasts is worth it for the three I mention above alone.

Metal probably gets my vote - largely only useful if fighting against Knight heavy lists (or Dwarfs to a lesser extent), it is too situational, and while they all are, this one seems particularly so.

[Ulthwe's Tears]

Different lores work well with different armies - Heavens is far less effective with the reroll heavy High Elves than with the naturally strong but lacking reroll Warriors, for example. Similarly different lores work better on different level wizards - Beasts or Heavens can be great on Lv.1s or 4s but can struggle in between.

Beasts - Wildform is as good a spell as you can get. Anraheir is great and Amber Spear is quite good. I think you either need a level 1 or a level 4 - otherwise you can't reliably get the more useful spells. It tends to work with most armies that can get it pretty well - who doesn't want a wildform? It isn't the strongest lore, but it can make a significant difference. The attribute is ok, unless you are a Beastmen.

Heavens - Probably the least obvious lore. Lots of rerolls and effective counters to killing blow/poison. Comet is nice to try and reach distant areas as well as shape the opponent's movement. Iceshard is brilliant - it can turn a combat in your favour for a small casting value. The other spells are decent, but the lore is better versus MSU armies which are less prevalent at the moment. Attribute is barely relevant but occasionally it comes in handy.

Life - it helps you not die, which is nice, but 8th edition is about killing so this is less useful than it seems. The problem with it is that it is too focused on buffing a singular unit and is quite reliant on Throne of Vines. As tmarichards said, you realistically need the whole lore. In general a one dimensional lore, but can still be useful. Flesh to Stoned White Lions are horrible. Its ability to bring back models is overstated - if you are in a dire situation it will likely not save you.

Light - Great buffs, great ranged prowess, Pha's Protection. It is clearly excellent. Attribute is quite good.

Shadow - Less versatile than light - it lacks good ranged prowess - but its debuffs and buffs are incomparable. The attribute can be very useful in certain situations, though is often forgotten.

Fire - Fireball is an excellent and versatile spell, almost better than Wildform as a signature spell. Flame cage is great - not many spells can affect movement in a meaningful way and it can be also be used nastily when cast into combat. Flaming sword is also quite nice. The problem is that there aren't 4 great spells so devoting a level 4 seems wasteful but at the same time you need it to reliably get the best spells. Particularly in regards to the attribute, it works well on multiple low level casters. Therefore I'd call it the best complementary lore. Maybe the worst primary lore, though.

Metal - underrated and particularly useful with some of the newer army books. Enchanted blades is one of the few (only?) places you can get magical attacks via a buff, which can be situationally useful. Final Transmutation is an underrated super spell. Overall it is pretty good, but I feel it would be unreliable as your only magic lore.

Death - there are always characters to kill so this lore will never be useless. Has some good buffs and purple sun is always nice. A really strong lore.

Therefore I'd say there are no useless lores. Some however have a wider degree of usefulness - shadow, light, death with beasts a little behind them. Life is probably the worst.

[Askari]

For my Empire, Metal and Heavens are actually pretty useful - Metal giving Greatswords a 2+ save, giving a Helblaster magical attacks, armour piercing and +1 to hit is just horrible. I think the #6 spell for Metal is vastly underrated as well, it's like the other uber spells, but isn't as dependant on the enemy, it just deletes a third of a unit and gives Stupidity in a 12" bubble around that unit as well. The casting cost is pretty low to boot, with a decent range. Heavens is great in a Knight list, re-rolling those 1s for armour saves or wounding with Lances is fantastic. As is making it harder for the enemy to hit, and Wind Blast and Comet can control your opponent's movement pretty well, an extra boost for such a mobile army.

My Skaven and Vampires use their own Lores, so there's that.

Still, I vote Heavens, as it really depends on the list you're taking, and even in the ideal situation isn't as powerful as Metal (which is devastating against the right list).