Camo Cloaks in the open

[Aurelius 12]

Evening all. My search-fu uncovered nothing on this already so I thought I'd post the question.

The IG FAQ states that 'a model wearing a camo cloak adds +1 to its cover save.'

Does this mean then that, like Stealth, the +1 bonus happens all the time and consequently a camo-cloaked unit has a 6+ cover save when standing in the open.

Or alternatively does it mean that the camo cloak only improves a pre-existing cover save from going to ground, Stealth, Shrouded or more commonly just being in cover?

My friend and I are of differing opinions so we figured this was the best place to come and talk it through.

[BaloOrk]

I belive you can get a 6+ coversave in the open, 0+1

[ctsteel]

I'm sure I saw reference to the +1 meaning that it essentially becomes a 6+ in the open (for any improvement rather than just re camo cloaks). Go To Ground rules operate in this manner (of course camo cloak would +1 that to a 5+).
I couldn't find explicit wording to this effect in the normal Cover Saves section, so I'm wondering if I saw it in passing somewhere else in the book or perhaps in one of the White Dwarf articles post-6th release.

Possibly I'm thinking of the Stealth rule from my initial read of it. Interestingly the FAQ has effectively removed cloaks having Stealth rule and just stated +1 to cover save but I'd be inclined to play it that way since the justification within the Stealth rule ( that +1 better means 6+ in the open) can be read as applying to a +1 coming from elsewhere

[Leeman Russ]

I figured they changed Camo Cloaks to be +1 Cover save rather than granting Stealth in order to allow it to stack with Stealth (because Stealth plus Stealth doesn't work) and means that camo cloaks at night would get +1 for Stealth and a further +1 for being Camo Cloaks - as for a cover save in the open, I personally interpret that to mean that only Stealth grants a 6+ in the open - the camo cloak only helps a pre-existing cover save.

[Banville]

I think I read as well that it gives you a 6+ in the open. I play a lot of Warmachine and some of the rules on this edition of 40k are written with a Privateer Press style definition (a lot aren't though). The rule says plus one to your cover. 0 + 1 = 6+ cover save. Crystal Clear.

[IJW]

It could go either way.

On the one hand there's precedent from Stealth and Shrouded using wording like 'note that this means the unit never gets worse than X+ cover save'.

On the other hand, Go to Ground has the cover save in the open being a totally separate bullet point to the +1 cover save and the Camo Cloaks have neither a separate bullet point nor equivalent wording to Stealth or Shrouded.

In a friendly game I'd suggest just giving them the Stealth rule.

[Mr_Rose]

Except they were specifically errata'd to remove the Stealth rule for a number of reasons, not least being that having one model with Stealth confers the ability on the whole unit.

[IJW]

In which case you're stuck with +1 to any existing cover save until further FAQ changes.

[Aurelius 12]

While the 6+ in the open interpretation is sorely tempting, I guess the fact that they didn't include the caveat found in the stealth special rule indicates that it does in fact only improve preexisting saves. Bit of a shame, but less cheesey I suppose.

That said I still thing the rules as written are not 100% clear on this and I'd be happy to play either way so long as it was agreed upon first.

[Capt._Jaelinek]

The issue is that the Lord Commisar could take a camp cloak and join a 30 man combined unit giving the whole unit Stealth. Now the Lord Commisar is the only one with the +1 save. So in my opinion this gives a 6+ in the open but only to models that specifically have the cloak. This could lead to Focused Fire issues but should stack with Stealth and Shrouded as normal.

[Retrospectus]

It says +1 to cover save. if you don't have a cover save, how can it be improved?

[Capt._Jaelinek]

That's like saying I have a special ability that gives me +1 apples. I don't have any apples so I can't use my special ability to get one until I have one, then I get 2!

Cover saves always stack up to a 2+.

[Dangersaurus]

The FAQ gives camo cloaks +1 to cover saves and Stealth... until they fix the FAQ and clarify they meant second paragraph and not second sentence.

[Lord Inquisitor]

Anyone any theories as to why they decided that if one model has stealth, everyone in the squad has it? Seems like a strange rule.

[Grentain]

Anyone any theories as to why they decided that if one model has stealth, everyone in the squad has it? Seems like a strange rule.

I believe the logic behind it was that if one model knew how to be stealthy, he could direct the rest of his squad in doing the same. It was this way in 5th, too.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

It was this way in 5th, too.

Late 5th. I thought it was a strange ruling at the time, although they did need a ruling of some sort on the subject.

[Capt._Jaelinek]

The FAQ gives camo cloaks +1 to cover saves and Stealth... until they fix the FAQ and clarify they meant second paragraph and not second sentence.

Sheesh if that is the case just give them shrouded!

I need to read up again, but does a camo cloak give stealth to the whole unit? I thought they changed that.

EDIT: I looked up the rules. Indeed the FAQ reference the 2nd sentence, but it makes no sense unless they meant paragraph. This FAQ does not give stealth just a +1 cover save for the model, not the unit. Stealth USR gives the unit the cover save.

[Grentain]

Sheesh if that is the case just give them shrouded!

I need to read up again, but does a camo cloak give stealth to the whole unit? I thought they changed that.

But then they couldn't get Shrouded AND +2 Stealth!