1500 space marine army, new to all of this

[Crimmy]

Hi,

basically, I haven't had a chance to play in years, and I recently read a 40k book (titanicus) and remembered how much I liked the game. I got a space marine book while on holiday, and have been playing with army lists. I know the idea is to find a list, play with it, modify it, play with it, and keep doing that if you need to, but I need to save money for uni stuff, and so I cant spend too much of my money , so I cant completely change my list if my first ones completely wrong. So, it'd be really helpful if you guys with your loads of experience could help me get a list I wont have to edit too much.


Master of the forge: 155
With conversion beamer and space marine bike


Sterngaurd veteran squad: 260
With 5 extra members and a Plasma cannon


Scout squad: 230
With snipers, heavy bolter with hellfire shells, serg. Telion, 10 camo cloaks, 5 extra members

Tactical squad: 175
With 5 extra members, flamer, plasma cannon



2 Attack bikes: 80

3 Attack bikes: 150
With 3 multi meltas



Land raider: 350
With Sergeant chronus, Hunter killer missile, Storm bolter, Multi melta

Thunderfire cannon: 100



1500 points in all


My thoughts for everything were:

master of the forge: relatively cheap HQ choice, and with the conversion beamer it can be used as an anti infantry model, and as an anti tank model. And, with the space marine bike, I can move him 12" and still fire the conversion beamer, due to the relentless rule, so I can get the master of the forge to the correct range before firing in the same term.

The sterngaurd veterans were to bolster the lack of troops, and the different ammo types can be useful against some of the heavier troops, and at longer ranges then normal. The plasma cannon is to combat strong elites/HQ choices.

the tactical squad was chosen to combat enemy troops squads, and the plasma cannon and flamer were use3d to add a little diversity.

the scout squad was the same as the tactical squad, and serg telion seems awesome from what I've read on here, so I couldnt resist.

the normal attack bikes are for anti infantry

the multi-melta armed attack bikes are to rush to enemy armour, get within 12", and then use the extra dice roll for armour penetration given to melta weapons within half range. Then theyre to go and combat elites/HQ choices.

Thunderfire cannon is for anti infantry, and generally harrying anything the enemy has.

the land raider was for all round support.



Any suggestions for improvements, or anything you would change?

[Crimmy]

One change I'm thinking about is removing the hunter-killer missile from the land raider, and removing the stormbolter, and removing the 2 attack bikes, and the sterngaurd squad, and using the freed up points to get 2 of these:

Dreadnought: 180
With Heavy flamer, Assault cannon, Drop pod, Deathwind launcher

[Tradition]

Crimmy - welcome back - one quick thing you need to take note of and make appropriate changes to your army list -
You can list a unit, its upgrades and its total point cost - you cannot post a breakdown of each upgrade and how much it costs. This is an IP issue.

So:
GOOD
Master of the forge: 155
with Conversion Beamer and Bike

Bad
Like you have it above

[Crimmy]

Ah, cheers, didn't realise. I'll change it all

[Judment]

Okay, first off, the sternguard should at least have Combi weapons and all sergeants should have Melta bombs.
Drop the 2 attack bikes with HB and split the others into 3x1 squads other than that and dropping the storm bolter and hunter killer on the LR it looks fairly solid

[Crimmy]

Thanks jjudgement, I'll take not of that. Is it worth carrying out the drednaught change I put in my second post?

[CommissarTanith]

Well, the most common application for a dreadnaught with a drop pod is to drop him behind tanks to blow them up with a multi-melta. I would probably stick to that so he could make his points up faster.

[Perth]

A few things stuck out at me just looking over your list.


You're pretty light on troops, I'd take at least one more squad.

Telion has Stealth already so you don't have to buy a camo cloak for him.

Telion's 50 points are based around him giving the squad he's with his special rules, now that he doesn't, he's probably not worth his points.

You'll want to drop that plasma cannon from the sternguard, they're most effective shooting with their bolters, you'll want to keep them that way.
Side note: Combi-Flamers work great for overwatch.

I'd also replace the plasma cannon on the tactical squad for a missile launcher, it'll save you 5 points and you can snap fire a Krak missile I believe. (You'll notice this most when you don't combat squad in a KP game.)

MotF and Scouts go together great so props there, but I wouldn't put him on a bike. The reason for that is you're going to want to keep him in a backfield unit, and the only unit you have in your backfield for sure right now is the scouts, so he's going to have to stand still.

I'm not too familiar with attack bikes, but with your only armor being a LR, I'd expect a lot of anti-tank weapons heading their way, might be a little more than they can handle.

The thing about Land Raiders is that they aren't a gunboat, they are an elite transport. Especially with Chronus on there, you're dumping a LOT of points on something that's not going to make it's points back and causes very little pressure so it won't ever get shot. I'd scrap the LR entirely and use the points on 3 dakka (AC/HB) predators. The preds add armor saturation, do more damage, open up more fire lanes, take some of the AT off your bikes, and still save you some points.

I'm also not a fan of the Thunderfire, it's just not tough enough for my taste, but it's not a terrible unit so to each there own.


If I may, this is my version of your list.

Librarian w/ Terminator Armor, Stormshield - 140
MotF w/ Conversion Beamer - 120

10 Scouts w/ Hellfire H. Bolter, camo cloaks - 180
10 Tactical Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Combi-Flamer - 190
10 Tactical Marines w/ Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Combi-Flamer - 190

9 Sternguard w/ 4x Combi-Flamer - 245

2 Attack Bikes - 80
2 Attack Bikes w/ Multi-Melta - 100

Predator w/ Autocannon, H. Bolters - 85
Predator w/ Autocannon, H. Bolters - 85
Predator w/ Autocannon, H. Bolters - 85


I trimmed down the list a bit and added a lot more shooting and even fit in a librarian to run with the Sternguard and teleport them where they need to be most. You've also now got three scoring tanks if you roll "Big Guns Never Tire".

The list is intentionally light on anti-tank for more anti-infantry. Troops are going to win or lose games, I think eliminating enemy scoring units is top priority, while taking fire on your own scoring units, which marines can do pretty well.

[Crimmy]

ok, here's a revised list, I've tried to take into account what you guys have told me



Master of the forge, conversion beamer, SM bike: 155



Dreadnought, missile launcher, drop pod, deathwind launcher: 170

Dreadnought, missile launcher, drop pod, deathwind launcher: 170



Scout squad, snipers, missile launcher, telion, 4 camo cloaks: 147

Scout squad, snipers, missile launcher, 5 camo cloaks: 100

Tactical squad, extra member, razorback, storm bolter: 156

Tactical squad, extra member, razorback, storm bolter: 156



Predator, TL lascannon, heavy bolters: 130

Predator, TL lascannon, heavy bolters, chronus: 200

Thunderfire cannon: 100



1499 points in all
------------------

dreadnoughts drop near tanks and take them out, more squads and raqzorbacks are for more anti-infantry firepower, so is the thunderfire, the lascannons on the predators are for anti tank, but the 2 sets of heavy bolters each are for anti infantry, and the MoF is for all round stuff

[Crimmy]

A bit different, more troops and more anti-infantry tank weapons, and a fortification:

HQ: 155

MoF, conversion beamer, SM bike: 155


Troops: 753

Tactical squad, 1 extra member, storm bolter, razorback, TL assault cannon: 191

Tactical squad, 1 extra member, storm bolter, razorback, TL assault cannon: 191

Tactical squad, 1 extra member, storm bolter, razorback, TL assault cannon: 191

Scout squad, 1 extra member, 4 sniper rifles, missile launcher, 5 camo cloaks, telion: 182



Heavy support: 330

Predator: 60
TL Lascannon: 45
Heavy bolters: 25

Predator: 60
TL Lascannon: 45
Heavy bolters: 25
Chronus: 70



Fortification: 270

Fortress of redemption, krakstorm missiles, 2 heavy bolters: 270


1500




What do you guys think of that?

Tacticals are to secure objectives, the scouts are to sit in the fortress and snipe, with telion on firing the lascannon/missiles (I can't find the rules, but I seem to remember you fire with one of the occupants ballistic skills, and 6 is a high one to use)

Tanks are for general use, and in case I roll big guns never tire, and all the autocannons can get through tank armour if they're lucky, and are very good at mopping up infantry.

The fortress firing krakstorm missiles should break up just about anything too

[K11]

Conversion beamer and bike won't work as to use it you need to be long range so only take one of those options. Also 2 vindicators would be better for the points than a land raider, especially with siege shields

[Crimmy]

HQ: 155

MoF, conversion beamer, SM bike: 155


Troops: 753

Tactical squad, 1 extra member, storm bolter, razorback, TL assault cannon: 191

Tactical squad, 1 extra member, storm bolter, razorback, TL assault cannon: 191

Tactical squad, 1 extra member, storm bolter, razorback, TL assault cannon: 191

Tactical squad, 5 extra members, heavy bolter: 170



Heavy support: 330

Predator: 60
TL Lascannon: 45
Heavy bolters: 25

Predator: 60
TL Lascannon: 45
Heavy bolters: 25
Chronus: 70



Fortification: 270

Fortress of redemption, krakstorm missiles, 2 heavy bolters: 270


1498


Bump

[Zombie P]

I don't see why the tank master is needed. The extra BS is negligible when you are firing a twin linked weapon, and you are throwing out 6 heavy bolter shots. I would swap Chronus out and use the points to upgrade the sponsons to lascannons, you have AI covered with your Razors, and if you are shooting your Lascannon at something the heavy bolters probably wont even scratch it. This way you have 2 AT tanks, throwing out 3 s9 ap2 (1 re-rollable) shots a turn, at 48", that is a lot better than 2 re-rollable shots all in. I would still choose one or the other with the bike and conversion beamer. Throw the points into something else. I almost feel like you need a CC character, but I think that is just my playing style moving in on my logic.

[Crimmy]

I thought the entry for chronus said he must be included in an army with a tank? Or is that just me being stupid?
And CC? I'm not used to this jargon, sorry

[Zombie P]

That simply means that IF he is in your army he must be IN a tank, I can see the confusion now though . By CC I mean Close Combat, in a marine army I mean either a chaplain (who is far less appealing with the new Power Weapon rules), some librarian builds, or the standard company commander. No worries

[Crimmy]

Haha, ok
Thanks for the help
I have a 2k point list which is one I'd prefer to play with, but no idea when I can get either of them

[sean_scanlon2000]

the predators i would change to auto cannon and las sponsons they are 120 a pop and honestly worth their weight in gold. you get a total of 4 shots per tank vs 8 for the standard heavy bolter and auto cannon vatiant. so yes your firepower is halved but in the end its the strength of the shots that count. while the tank doe go up in cost its efectiveness is nothing to sneeze at. it can still deal with infantry and excells at armour. 2 ac shots as well as 2 las shots will ruin most people days. now while its not the infantry killer thats your regular ac and hb pred i've always preferred a whilrlwind for a strickly anti infantry role anyhow.

[Waxsir]

I really don't like scouts, they are just bad at everything... It's all about your tactical squads. I also think you should just take them 3x 10 strong so you unlock some of the cheapest heavy weapons in the Dex. Then combat squad with 3 x razors and give your sergeants combi weapons to match the specials. I wouldn't use a landraider without an elite assault squad and the fortress is allot of points for what it does, it's maybe for really big games 3000+. As others have said, if you take transports you will need some tanks to draw fire, so take predators or vindicators. I like the attack bikes but i would take them at full strength.