Third Hobbit movie

[eldargal]

I think three films is a good idea. LOTR takes a lot of words to depict events whereas the Hobbit is much more concise, in my opinion. Factoring in all the 'behind the scenes' bits with the Necromancer and whatnot I think three films will give Peter Jackson the opportunity to do the Hobbit justice. Having said hat I think two could have sufficed just as well but I can't say I object to someone milking a cash cow if they provide a good experience for the audience. Which they certainly did with the LOTR films.

Except for the godawful siege of Minas Tirith and Battle of the Black Gate. Because charging blindly into hte fronts of giant elephants and then allowing your entire force to be surrounded just makes so much sense militarily.

[Shush]

Except for the godawful siege of Minas Tirith and Battle of the Black Gate. Because charging blindly into hte fronts of giant elephants and then allowing your entire force to be surrounded just makes so much sense militarily.

I really liked the part where they fight the elephants, especially the angry driver! I did wonder why they didn't put other elfs and dwarfs there when they put the elfs in at Helms Deep. I just thought if they were doing it in there they should do it everywhere.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the giant spiders will be like from Hobbit! Shelob was really creepy, gross and looked amazing!

[Arnizipal]

I liked the LOTR trilogy asides from the ridiculous depiction of Gimli as the comic relief. It was really poor and I hope the hobbit does not do the same. I also really worry that 3 movies for the hobbit is a stretch

They'd be hard pressed making all of them comic relief if there's so many of them running around.
I fully expect some (drunken) Elf comic relief though.

[biggreengribbly]

Except for the godawful siege of Minas Tirith and Battle of the Black Gate. Because charging blindly into hte fronts of giant elephants and then allowing your entire force to be surrounded just makes so much sense militarily.

Hold on a mo. The Riders had just crossed like... half the known world in a great hurry to reach that point. Charged allegedly impossible odds and won. They would have been tired, scattered across the field, and had been, to my understanding of the layout of Pellenor Fields, Flanked by the elephants, with little to no notice. Were you expecting them to organise, on the fly, on knackered horses, at the last minute, some sort of grand reverse flanking attack? The best they could have hoped for was essentially to break and flee, try to reform and attack from a different angle, tiring out men and horses yet further, and taking a blow to morale in the process. Compared to that, a head on charge doesn't seem so stupid a reaction to my mind. Better that than doing nothing after all.

And to retort to point the second, when the sole and entire point of the battle at the Black Gate was to draw attention and then stall for time, yes, yes it does. Let the enemy waste time manoeuvring for advantage. Imagine how long it would have actually taken to herd that many Orcs, a bunch of which to my recollection were the broken survivors of Pellenor fields, through the bottleneck of the gate, and move sufficient numbers around to make it worth the effort. Sounds just as valid a tactic to me as Thermopalae-ing it up by charging the gate and trying to bottle them up there. Especially since just giving them the ground plays into the illusion they are in fact confident of victory because 'Aragorn has the ring'.

[eldargal]

First point, it doesn't matter how tired they were, charging headlong into the elephants was a solid 8 on the Field Marshal Haig scale of military stupidity. They would have been better off avoiding the elephants. Also Rohan isn't half the world away from Gondor.

Second, a far better distraction would have been to pose a serious military threat instead of putting yourself in a position to be cut off from retreat and wiped out utterly.Had the ydone the Thermopylae thing and blocked the entrance I wouldn't have a problem with it. But they didn't, they let themselves get surrounded which meant that if the rings destruction had been delayed they could all have been wiped out, leaving Middle Earth with a decided lack of leadership.

Don't misunderstand, I still enjoyd the film and these bits in no way spoilt it for me, but they were really stupid and not what I had come to expect form the trilogy up to then.

[Angelwing]

Regarding the last two points discussed, I think 'reality' has to be checked at the door and replaced with the rule of cool.

[ColShaw]

In the books, the Rohirrim get surrounded because Eomer goes totally knee-biting crazy after seeing Eowyn down on the battlefield, and Tolkien specifically points out what a bad tactical decision it was. And the Mumakil scare the crap out of the horses, so the Rohirrim can't actually get close enough to engage them.

Honestly, the thing that really bugs me in ROTK at the Pelennor Fields is that PJ decided to have the Army of the Dead show up there. It's a bad decision because the army of ghosts is just so much more powerful than anything else that it kind of makes the contributions of everyone else irrelevant.

[El_Machinae]

The charge of the oliphaunts is one of my favorite scenes, tbh.

They formed up the line, to charge the orcs, knowing they would die. They each knew that they would mow down dozens of orcs in their charge, only to be surrounded and fatigued before they got halfway through. They knew they were going to die, and they charged anyway. Why? Because they were brave, and someone had to kill the orcs so that their offensive would be blunted.

So they charged. They charged, and killed and charged and swung. Their charge was so successful that they actually routed the orcs, despite being outnumbered (still) 5 to 1. They stopped their charge - battered, bruised, and successful.

Then the oliphants appeared from the mist. Enormous warmachines. The Rohimirr saw them, and realised that they could not win. They'd already lived through their 'death charge', miraculously. Did they need to charge into certain death again?

They did. They formed the line, and charged (a second time) into certain death. Why?

Because it was the right thing to do. It had to be done. The evil had to be battled

[kyussinchains]

I'd rather see a film of Children of Hurin (although the aforementioned legal wrangles will block that) or any of the other stories of the Silmarillion

I'm excited about the Hobbit, but can't wait another year to finally satisfy my Tolkien itch..... although my son will be six by then and may be capable of sitting through the entire film at the cinema......

[eldargal]

If it had been like that in the film I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

In the books, the Rohirrim get surrounded because Eomer goes totally knee-biting crazy after seeing Eowyn down on the battlefield, and Tolkien specifically points out what a bad tactical decision it was. And the Mumakil scare the crap out of the horses, so the Rohirrim can't actually get close enough to engage them.

Honestly, the thing that really bugs me in ROTK at the Pelennor Fields is that PJ decided to have the Army of the Dead show up there. It's a bad decision because the army of ghosts is just so much more powerful than anything else that it kind of makes the contributions of everyone else irrelevant.

[Thanatos_elNyx]

Just out of interest, why do you think Return of the King was bad?

This

Honestly, the thing that really bugs me in ROTK at the Pelennor Fields is that PJ decided to have the Army of the Dead show up there. It's a bad decision because the army of ghosts is just so much more powerful than anything else that it kind of makes the contributions of everyone else irrelevant.

Aragon should have sent the Rohirrim a text message saying "Hey I got these OP, WTFBBQ, green blob of doom on the way, you can totally take 5. LOL XOXO"

With the Undead army the good guys could not possibly have lost so it makes the whole story moot.

Disclaimer:
Though to be clear, when you say bad, I mean bad as in poor compared to Fellowship and Two Towers; but it was still an otherwise awesome movie.

[Arnizipal]

If the Rohirrim hadn't charged, Gondor would have fallen by the time that Aragorn arrived.
Also, I believe it is said that Aragorn is the last of his kind in the first movie (for whatever reason).

Either way, the rangers saving the day always seemed a bit odd to me in the novels. Even if Aragorn wasn't the last, they weren't a populous people.
Their impact seemed way too large on the massed Orc armies.

[Thanatos_elNyx]

If the Rohirrim hadn't charged, Gondor would have fallen by the time that Aragorn arrived.

And the Gondorians, all they do the whole movie is die horribly.
They lose all credibility as a fighting force for me.

[Arnizipal]

Gandalf: "Whatever comes through that gate, you can take it!"
*armoured trolls burst through and kill everyone*

I love that scene

[ColShaw]

If the Rohirrim hadn't charged, Gondor would have fallen by the time that Aragorn arrived.
Also, I believe it is said that Aragorn is the last of his kind in the first movie (for whatever reason).

Either way, the rangers saving the day always seemed a bit odd to me in the novels. Even if Aragorn wasn't the last, they weren't a populous people.
Their impact seemed way too large on the massed Orc armies.

Minas Tirith had 7 levels. The Orcs had gotten to the second one by the time the Rohirrim arrived. Aragorn showed up a little later in the day (probably 2-3 hours after the charge of the Rohirrim, allowing for some time-compression). Minas Tirith would not have fallen in that time. The Orcs and Trolls would've broken through, optimistically, two more gates. Half the city would still be there, and if they were evacuating civilians reasonably, casualties wouldn't even have been that much heavier.

As far as the rangers saving the day: re-read the book. It's the thousands of people from Belfalast and Lebennin who make the difference at the Pelennor Fields ("...leading a great valour of the folk of Belfalast and Lebennin..."). Where the rangers made the difference is in relieving the pressure of the Corsairs on the southern fiefdoms, and capturing the fleet of Corsairs with the Army of the Dead. Then the ordinary folk of southern Gondor take over the ships. There's an awful lot of them; it never seemed the least bit odd to me.

[The bearded one]

To be honest, valiant or not I always found the men of belfalast and lebennin saving the day a bit peculiar

Here we have this massive siege, with a force of evil covering the entire fields of Pelennor, with reinforcements still arriving, and the gigantic numenorean fortifications didnt stop them, nor the massive cavalry assault of thousands upon thousands of rohirrim, but then 2-3 thousands fishermenguys jump from the boats, and the enemy is routed? While they had difficulty beating the corsairs that occupied those boats earlier, and needed the ghosts and rangers to beat them? Odd. The arrival of the boats is supposed to be a turning point, and the ghosts, being Aragorn's "secret weapon" for which he walked through a haunted mountain from whence people don't return, make for a more dramatic climax to the centre battle of the film, on which the majority of the story from the start of the movie has been focussing. The arrival of the fishermen just doesn't have that dramatic impact

Also, didn't the captains of the west get surrounded in the book, or at least outflanked? I recall mention of forces of orcs and men hiding behind the outliers of mountains and in caves in the surrounding mountains, pouring out when the forces of the black gate moved.

A lot of the changes in writing these adaptations, are actually explained in the 'behind the scenes' of the extended dvd's, something like 9-10 hours of material. Sure, stuff may have been changed or left out (you can't put your audience through half an hour of the scouring after you've done everything else.. you just can't! It's an enormous anti-climax in movie, that you can't put a viewer through anymore after over 3 hours of film of epic grand battles, to have a long chunk of story of hobbits fighting ruffians), but I think the movies are amazing, and deserving of the oscars it received.

Sure, 3 movies may be a moneygrab, a small one with good reasons or an enormous moneydriven scam, but heck if I care, because if the movies are just as good/entertaining, then shut up and take my money!




If it is something I'd enormously love to see, and also see as much of as possible, then I don't care if its multiple movies! There ought to be more than enough material to treat in these movies. You'll be surprised by the vast, enormous fat piles of stuff that didnt go into LotR because of timeconstraints, and the extended versions of those movies are 4 hours long! They probably could've made a lot more movies out of it than 3, if they had the chance! But narrate to yourself what's in the hobbit, even though it's a small book, and you'll be amazed by how many events happen in it (not to mention that battles that only take a handful of pages in the book, can turn into 20 minutes of film ).

As comforting parting gift; the hobbit movies will not only contain the hobbit itself, but also a lot of appendix material (not silmarillion material, the tolkien estate owns those rights), dealing primarily with the happenings around Dol Guldor and the necromancer. Gandalf's dol guldor dealings actually intertwine to an important degree with the story of the quest for the lonely mountain. Gandalf investigates the dungeons of Dol Guldor and finds Thrain, thorin's father, who gives him the map and key to the lonely mountain, that Gandalf later gives to Thorin. I'm quite sure the crazed wild 'man' that attacks Gandalf in those ruins in the trailer, is Thrain. Thrain went insane, you see. Gandalf leaves the dwarves at the edge of mirkwood too, in order to continue his Dol Guldor stuff, I think he went to the white council at that point, and reappeared at the lonely mountain when that was done.

Furthermore, there's one actor who apparently plays Azog, an orc warlord killed by Dain Ironfoot at the battle of Azanulbizar, at the end of the war between the orcs and dwarves, which was I believe some 150 years before the events of the hobbit. Thorin is also at that battle (and that's where he got the name 'oakenshield', as he used an oakbranch as shield after he lost his shield). If there's an actor playing Azog, there is a good chance that this battle, or maybe little flashbacks of it, will show up on the screen. There is already another actor playing the goblin king, so it won't be that the character of Azog is merged with the goblin king. In the 'behind the scenes' blogs they've given out thusfar, there is a bit where you see an actor in dwarf makeup on a mountainside (and then a chopper flies past and his beard flies in his face ), and I don't recognise this dwarf as any of the party of 13, he looked rather scruffy, and neither did his wardrobe, nor the background or environment make it look like this was Dain (and he looks different from Thrain in the trailer), so this might even be Thror, Thorin's grandfather, who got killed by Azog

[The Dire Troll]

Now I want to see the films even more, after reading that. I however cant decide if The bearded one is the wisest dwarf ever to walk the earth or an obsessive goblin with a fake beard

[Arnizipal]

Furthermore, there's one actor who apparently plays Azog, an orc warlord killed by Dain Ironfoot at the battle of Azanulbizar, at the end of the war between the orcs and dwarves, which was I believe some 150 years before the events of the hobbit.

From the wikipedia entry on the new Hobbit movie:

Billy Connolly as Dáin II Ironfoot: A great dwarf warrior, ruler of the Iron Hills and cousin of Thorin Oakenshield. According to Connolly, "...this guy will terrify the life out of you. I have a mohawk and tattoos on my head."

Sounds like a Slayer

[ColShaw]

Wait a second... they've got Billy Connolly playing Dain Ironfoot?!

That's... awesome.

[The bearded one]

I can actually really picture him as Dain


They also have Stephen Fry as the master of laketown, sylvester mcoy as Radagast the brown and barry humphries as the goblin king.

I just checked the wikipedia entry, and both Thror and Thrain are indeed in the movie, which is pretty cool.
Similarly, I knew Azog was in, but according to the wikipedia entry Bolg is in there too, which is great because I was (sort of) worried that they'd for some reason put Azog in command of the battle of the 5 armies instead of Bolg, but if both are in, then part of the war between the dwarves and orcs must be in, probably the part where Azog kills Thror, or where Azog is killed by Dain. In any case, it'll be awesome!