Daemon Special Rule: BRB vs Codex?

[Nyctha]

Recently i came across a situation in my local GW store where i had my Chaos Daemons and a Bloodcrusher of mine got shot with a Railgun. Naturally i pointed out the Eternal Warrior special rule and explained the Bloodcrushers did not suffer instant death. However the staff member cut in and said the Daemon special rule in the BRB didn't include Eternal Warrior anymore and takes priority being the more recent release. However this makes no sense, the FAQ makes no mention of this and if the entire Daemon special rule as outlined in the Chaos Daemon codex was replaced it would also take their Daemonic Assault and Daemonic rivalry away with it (and that's insane).

In the end the staff member forced me to remove the model and play by those rules, so obviously Fateweaver suffered instant death next turn and i lost badly. I'm sure this isn't right but when i argued i was basically accused of trying to cheat and would like some assurance I'm not mistaken as i was so outspoken on the subject it seemed crazy

[Thanatos_elNyx]

No; Codex trumps BRB.
If the Daemon rules from the Codex aren't allowed then you can't even deploy your army (or you simply deploy as standard and no DSing.).

The FAQ even says that Daemons gain the Fear USR which doesn't make sense if you are using the BRB Daemon rules.

[nlive]

I was curious about the effect on my army of having GW decide that codex demon rule is over ridden by the BRB Daemon rule and here is what I think would happen:

NB this is just a thought experiment.

Fearless & Fear

We lose the Fearless, but gain Fear. Would be a really bad idea to battle other Daemons as the new Fear does not given you Fearless as well. Lots of Ld rolls.

Invulnerable!

Okay, against the big hitters this will not be an issue, but against Heralds and lesser multi-would daemons this will hurt a lot. Everyone will have to watch out for those Force Weapons.

Armour saves are in this area... and that's what the Daemons would have now. All those saves listed at the back of the codex would become armour save with a 5++ save to fall back on.

Daemonic Assault

This is the catch all defense against people saying you can't use the Codex Daemon rule. If they really insist mid-game that you can't use any Codex Daemon rule you will have to point out that you will have to start the game again as you can't Daemonic Assault using BRB rules. Let me put it this way: most people should run in fear at the thought of having your entire Daemon army on the board at the start of turn one.

Playing without the Assault rule would make it feel that you were fighting inside the Eye of Terror. Who needs to break into the material plane when you are already there?

Daemonic Rivalry

The loss of this would be too weird to contemplate!

[CrownAxe]

Daemons from Codex: Chaos Daemons get both the BRB USR and their army rule for Daemons

[Goatlust]

The GW employee is a complete idiot. Our method of deployment (deep striking and splitting into two waves), eternal warrior, our profile saves being invulnerable, daemonic rivalry and fearless are all tied to the daemon rule. If he seriously thinks all that got overwritten then ask him why they bothered to make amendments to the daemonic rivalry aspects of the daemon rule in an FAQ published after sixth edition. Next time you come in show him that and then tell him that you didn't appreciate him completely ruining your last game.

[visage13]

Last paragraph on page 7 of the 6th edition book has your answer. When there is a conflict between rulebook and codex, the codex takes precedence.

[KronusDaSneaky]

Both RAW and RAI give them both the rule book USR and the codex one. The codex version of daemon and the USR are not mutually exclusive. On side note page 27 of the codex states the codex version applies to every unit in the army and as not already page 7 of the BRB is quite clear codex trumps rulebook.

[Cheeslord]

The GW employee is a complete idiot.

Quoted for truth. this is particularly annoying when said person should really know better and are living up to the stereotype often presented on the internet (which is probably not generally true).

The only way that seems to make sense (at least for me) is if chaos Daemons benefit both from their codex rules and the Daemon USR (apart from Chaos Spawn which is explicitly not a Daemon, stated in the codex). Otherwise, the new version of Flamers and Screamers (in the latest WD expansion) would either have no invulnerable save (if they only benefit from the codex version, since they have no save specified in their profile), or no fearless/eternal warrior (if they only benefit from the Daemon USR). Maybe it was GWs intent to make Daemons unplayable but I kind of hope not.

Mark.

[2nd place]

I think if that had been me I would of throwen the webpage at him, on 1 of the FAQ's (can't remeber which 1) it even says in black and white that codex rules trump BRB, always has done, I feel sorry for you clearly the GW member who runs the local london store is a few tools short of a toolbox...

[DoctorTom]

Next time the redshirt tries something like that, pull out the FAQ and ask him where in the FAQ it states that the main rulebook definition for Daemon overrides the Codex definition.

[nlive]

Due to the fact that there has been major changes due to 6th Ed I carry a copy of the FAQ for every codex I use.

[djhowitzer]

here is what i would do. write to GW in Nottingham and explain what happened. ask for a written reply. do not mention the location of you local store - you dont want to get the guy fired! take the written reply from head office into your local shop and show it to the manager.

[rexscarlet]

Did the WD Daemon Codex supplement shed any light in this subject?

[CrownAxe]

We actually just get both rules simultaneously

If you look at the codex entry for the Daemon Special rule it says "This special rule applies to every model in this army and includes the following four special rules"

Right there. It says includes, not replace. It adds them to the Daemon rule. That means the codex says we have the Daemon USR and include the 4 codex rules with it.

[DoctorTom]

Did the WD Daemon Codex supplement shed any light in this subject?

Not really. The supplement didn't list any saves, so it's assuming you reference the new BRB rule, but that isn't how the older codex releases were written.