Battlefleet Lists

[Spellfire]

Hey all,

I'm in the process of building my first BFG fleet (Imperial Navy) and I'm a little confused by all the talk of different fleet lists and what ships are and are not allowed - this may be due to the dispersed nature of all the BFG documents? There's obviously the list that comes in the official rules, then I believe there are more ships in the Armada book - are these part of the same list? I've also heard talk of the Battlefleet Bakka list, but am not sure what ships are in these. Additionally, I've seen a pdf floating around on the internet that contains ships I've never heard of, such as the Victory class Battleship - are these official?

I'm assuming that these lists are much like the 40k Codices, in that you cannot mix and match? Is there a consolidated page or document detailing all the different lists and options therein?

One of the main reasons I ask is that I've managed to acquire a very cheap Apocalypse Battleship, but am not sure if it can be used in the same fleet at either the Emp or Ret BBs.

Edit: I've found the Imperial Fleets Alpha pdf as part of the BFG:R set, I'm assuming this list can only be used in BFG:R since some of the ship stats seem different.

Many thanks for any help.

P.S. I've just been re-reading Shadow Point and seen talk of the (now defunct) Majestic Class Super-Carrier; did anyone ever come up with some rules for this?

[Novrain]

Just as a quick reply the Apocalypse can be used in the Armageddon and Obscuras fleet lists from the PDF called m_1280008_BFG_Imperial_Fleets.pdf which should be on the GW site here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/co...&aId=21500018a

I would suggest dl'ing all of the pdfs for BFG on the GW site which will give you all of the produced rules and access to all the fleet lists. Then pick up the 2010 FAQ

[Spellfire]

Many thanks for that, it looks like the Obscurus list is the one to go with, although unfortunately it means I can't use my three Falchion escorts.

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[Novrain]

Why not use the Segmentum Solar list? It includes the Apoc and Falchions...

[Spellfire]

Do you mean the Armageddon one? It lacks too many ships that I already have like the Retribution, grand cruisers and dauntless.

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[andrewchristlieb]

Campaign or one off games? I doubt anyone would complain about you using the Falchins in either if you do a Bastion list (obscurus) just ask first. I also doubt anyone would complain if you use them in place of swords.

[Spellfire]

Yeah I'm looking at a Bastion Fleet, possibly named Battlefleet Corona since that lets me come up with my own colour scheme (I think anyway, haven't seen anything for Corona on the intarwebz).

[Spellfire]

Actually scrap Corona, I'm going with Scarus! Can't not really given that Eisenhorn and Ravenor are my favorite 40k books.

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[sunnyside]

Depending on what else you're taking there are resevers/reinforcement rules that you can use. They're spelled out fairly well in the 2010 FAQ. So if you can't take a certain type of imperial escort in a given fleet list, but you have three times as many escorts already, you can add the escorts that typically aren't allowed in the list.

In principle the reserve rules are availible for every fleet list. But since it only applies for vessels of the same race and only applies if different allies rules aren't in play, it's mostly an IN thing.

Note that the Space Marines consider themselves to be a different "race" than puny humans for these purposes.

[Spellfire]

So if I'm reading the FAQ correctly, if I include 9 Escorts (any combination of Swords, Firestorms or Cobras), I can also include up to 3 Falchions as Reserves. Additionally, since I'm using the Bastion fleet list, I can also include a Repulsive Grand Cruiser for every 3 Grand/Battle/Cruisers - which would be awesome since I happen to have two Repulsives sitting on the shelf waiting for a refurb.

Also just to confirm, any ships I take as Reserves come "as is", i.e. I cannot use any upgrade options for them (e.g. replace X Batteries with Y Batteries for +20 points).

And lastly, is Bakka an officially recognised Fleet list, within the BFG community at least?

[andrewchristlieb]

Yes for every 3 you can bring in one reserve.
Your grand cruiser can be brought in with three cruisers/ battle cruisers/ grand cruisers, just remember you still need to meet the requirements to field it (2 cruisers allow one battle cruiser or grand cruiser).
As an example my recent campaign bastion list includes 3 cruisers which allowed me to take a Carnage which is a total of 4 cruisers so i also have a battle cruiser and a grand cruiser that gives me five cruiser/ battle cruisers which allows on battle ship also then i filled out the rest with escorts: 3x Tyrant 1x Carnage 1x Overlord 1x Vengance 1x Retribution 2x3 Firestorm 2x3 Cobras.
You can select varients as reserve (for instance if you bring a Dauntless as reserve in an armageddon fleet list you can have it with either torpedoes or lances) the exception to this is when selecting chaos vessels from the reserve fleets of segmentum obscurus you cannot have different varients of the ships that are available.
I would say so yes, some have issue with it but its part of the FAQ2010 and most people use the FAQ, Dominions are awesome .

[Spellfire]

Cheers for the help. Not convinced on the Dominion though, prefer the Mars BC.

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[horizon]

Dominion is cool/good/nice asset to the IN arsenal.

[andrewchristlieb]

Theyre both great ships it just depends on your play style. With the torpedoes the Dominion lends itself well to close support and with the all lance armament it backs up other ships better (the batteries on the Mars are next to useless after blast marker and range penalties are applied). I find the Mars to be better in pairs tho, two novas and eight launch makes a very strong basis for a fleet and with twelve wb their broadside firepower will atleast give most players a pause. I recently used a Mars and an Exorcist squadroned which worked very well also (you can see the results of that on afterimagedans blog).

[Spellfire]

Possibly, I just don't have the gaming experience yet to be able to pick a ship with lances over one with batteries at the BC level. Would you be able to explain why it's so good?

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[fracas]

Lances always hit on a 4+, but eldar will get 2+ holofield saves
Batteries roll against armor value to hit but the number of dice you roll to hit with will be reduced by target facing&conditionand blast markers

[Spellfire]

Happy with the functional differences between lances and WB, I'm more after the tactical reasons for taking one over the other, although I suppose it's difficult to answer that without being able to consider the entire fleet list which I assume should have a balance of both types of weapons.

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[fracas]

You take both weapon types in your fleet to be effective against eldar and necron/space marines, and for long and short ranges
Some even say don't limit a ship to one weapon type

[andrewchristlieb]

Well we know that we are going to want to force engagements where we have two or more ships able to attack one enemy ship. We also know that we are going to want to keep our carriers seperate from gunship squadrons so they are free to reload when needed.

To this end then a lance armed carrier provideds the most benefit as you do not need to be squadroned to avoid negative effects (blastmarkers) additionally the lances do not suffer any negatives for range so the lance armed ship can stand back from the fight and still provide the full firepower.

A ship like the Mars would have to be squadroned with the ships it is supporting for the best effect of its weapons, weapons batteries also work better when you are closer to the enemy which tends to be where you dont want your carriers/ novas.

This is all assuming your carrier are supporting the typical IN combos (Lunar/Lunar, Dominator/Gothic, Tyrant/Gothic).

[fracas]

Or dictators as carriers to use the same reload for both torpedoes and attack crafts
With gunships being generalists (lunars) or specialists (dominators, gothics, and tyrants)

What battlecruisers you take depends on what cruisers you took.