New Soulgridnders with the Haverest Cannon and Baleful torrent attack

[Blkc57]

Ok so going over the new rules for a Soulgrinder in fantasy we came across an issue in the book. First what strength value is the grapeshot done by the Harvest cannon? same strength as a normal cannon of 5? Also while the baleful torrent says that it fire like a fire thrower in its rules it does not specify if this attack is flaming or not, so if it shoots like a fire thrower does that make it a flaming attack for the purposes of regen? Also can the soulgrinder use both the harvest cannon and the baleful torrent in the same turn as long as it didn't move? it rules seem to only limit one shooting attack if you moved so i assume it can fire a full volley of everything including its stone thrower attack as long as it sat still that turn? And for my last question (really sorry but this thing seems more complex the more I look at its rules) since it is classed as a monster is it allowed to pivot to fire all of its wepaons and still count as not having moved?

[Thommy H]

Its shots follow all the rules given in the Warhammer rulebook. Only one profile is given for grapeshot in the rules, so that's what you should use, and a fire thrower inflicts Flaming Attacks, so the Baleful Torrent does the same thing. It can only fire one weapon per turn, like any other unit, but it can move and fire without penalty. It can't pivot before firing - it's a monster, and follows those rules, it just happens to have some war machine-like shooting attacks.

[Lord Inquisitor]

The "can I pivot before firing" question applies to all non-warmachine units that fire as war machines. There are several threads on this subject and there's no definitive answer. However I would recommend that you play that you pivot before firing because (a) precident with hellcannon and (b) if you don't all sorts of additional questions crop up regarding arc and LOS that aren't an issue if you pivot. Note that if you play it this way you must pivot.

[Blkc57]

The reason i ask about the pivot is that it matters for whether or not you apply the -1 to BS for having moved if it pivots around to shoot its grapshot at something, and the pivot itsn't a free move like a cannon normally gets. Thanks Thommy for explaining the fire thrower thing, it made sense to us that it would be flaming since the name implies it, but we wanted to make sure that it had the special rule since the unit entry mentioned nothing about flaming atttacks. As for the "you can only shoot one weapon for any shooting unit", is that listed somewhere, I just want to refence it for future use if it has a page number or FAQ citation, because you can buy all the shooting attacks and just load that thing up we assumed that it would be able to simply fire all of them if it sat still that turn.

[Lord Inquisitor]

Well firstly I believe you can only buy one of the ranges upgrades (and no one is going to take the bolt thrower!). If you agree that non-warmachines pivot before firing when firing warmachine weapons, yes you can pivot and fire the bolt thrower without the -1 (but again, bolt thrower upgrade is absurdly priced).

The rules for monsters firing aren't terribly well fleshed out but page 88 says you have to choose which weapon to fire with and this applies whether you move or not. It seems this is on a "per model" basis so a thundertusk comprises three models and can make three shooting attacks. The soul grinder is only one, so you have to choose.

The grapeshot is worth mentioning. As far as I can tell it suffers a penalty for moving and long range, which makes it just rubbish.

[sulla]

The grapeshot is worth mentioning. As far as I can tell it suffers a penalty for moving and long range, which makes it just rubbish.

Absolutely. Grapeshot is as underpowered as the basic cannon rules are overpowered. Perhaps this makes cannons balanced in GWs view?