Tomb Kings 2000 pts - New Player

[dark7element]

Fantasy Army: TK

New player putting together my first WFB army. I've played plenty of 40k and BFG, but never Fantasy, until now.

Why tomb kings? 1. I thought 'The Mummy' was a cool movie, 2. They just got a new army book, 3. Skeletons are easy to paint, and 4. (most importantly) the Khemrian warsphinx. I saw one in the local game store's display case and immediately wanted one, it's quite possibly the coolest GW model I've ever seen. Anyway, on to the list!

*Lords*
Liche High Priest [Nehekaran lore], level 4, talisman of preservation: 255
Tomb King with Blade of Antarhak, spellshield, ironcurse icon: 245

*Heroes*
Necrotect with gamblers armor: 80
Liche priest [Nehekaran lore] (level 2) with wand of jet: 140
Tomb Prince with dragonhelm, enchanted shield: 115

*Core*
Skeleton warriors x 22 with light armor, spears, master of arms, standard bearer, musician: 162
King and level 2 lichpriest go here
Skeleton warriors x 24 with light armor, spears, master of arms, standard bearer, musician: 184
High priest, necrotect and prince go here
Skeleton archers x 10: 60
Skeleton horsemen x 8 with master of horse, light armor: 122
Skeleton chariot x 3 with master of chariots, standard bearer: 175

*Special*
Khemrian Warsphinx with firey roar: 230
Khemrian Warsphinx with firey roar: 230

Total: 1998

So, this is meant to be a reasonably economical list constructed around the Tomb Kings battalion box, with characters, a single skeleton box, and the sphinxes added. That said, so far the battalion box is the only thing I've purchased, so I'm willing to listen to suggestions and make changes. I really would like to keep at least one of the sphinxes though.

Strategy-wise, I have very little shooting so I'll be relying on my two priests to teleport the slow-moving skeletons forward and heal them from shooting losses. The skeletons are spooky, which will make low LD troops ineffective in swamping them, and have high WS due to the prince and king, allowing them to take on enemy elite units.

I don't have any artillery, but if my troops (and especially the two monsters) make it to the enemy lines, they will wreak havoc.

[tarrym]

Firstly welcome to WHFB! And you've made an excellent choice for your first army - but then TK were my first WHFB army so I'm a little biased

On to the list...

- Skeleton Warriors suck. Even with the boosted Weapon Skill from the Tomb King/Tomb Prince. They might be hitting on 3's, but they'll be wounding on 4's/5's and they just don't have enough attacks to really do much damage. Sadly with only 20-25 models per unit I think you'll really struggle against any unit in horde formation.

- Skeleton archers are pretty good. Don't rely on them to win any games, but they can help take care of enemy flyers/fast cavalry if you can force a panic test. I'd also suggest putting the Liche Priests in with the Archers - you really don't want your priests in those combat blocks when it comes time to fight in combat.

- Skeleton horsemen are a reasonable unit - but not worth the points they cost. They are basically the same as Skeleton Warriors when it comes to combat - double the attacks, but a bigger base size to boot. And you can't boost their Weapon Skill with characters Skeleton Horse Archers are a better unit thanks to their scouting rules, if you can alter the models you have to carry bows instead of spear/shield then I'd recommend it.

- Chariots are good. I've seen them work well as small units that just take care of enemy fragile units on the flank. I've also seen them work in very large units (8+) but this is more risky as they are useless in combat without getting a charge off. Unit sizes in between tend to have the manouevering problems of a large unit but not the combat punch so they don't make their points back very often.

- Khemrian Warsphinx = probably the best unit in your list. It's nasty in combat, and can handle itself without too much magical support. If you can get both of your sphinxes into an enemy infantry block at once then you're in with a strong chance of winning combat round after round.

I can understand that you want to start off the army based on the battalion that you've already bought, so your list is pretty good given the models you have available.

If you want to expand on this list then I'd suggest the priority should be to add some ranged support from a Casket of Souls and a couple of Screaming Skull Catapults. Necropolis Knights are also a solid combat unit if you fancy some more big monsters.

Good luck with your games!

[dark7element]

Thanks very much for the quick reply and detailed advice! I haven't actually assembled any of the minis yet (lazy!) so it's no problem to exchange the horsemen for horse archers. They cost the same, even.

I'm afraid I'm set on using a bunch of skeleton warriors. I want my army to have some 'mass' to it. However, since you advised that 20-25 isn't good enough to reliably win combats, I decided to scrap the Tomb Prince and fold all of the skeleton warriors into one large unit, as well as transferring a few to the archer unit. With the points savings I was able to afford a casket of souls and a better item for my level 2 priest. I checked it out on GW's website and the casket has a very cool mini (always an important factor for me). Anyway, here's a revised list.

*Lords*
Liche High Priest [Nehekaran lore], level 4, talisman of preservation: 255
Tomb King with Blade of Antarhak, spellshield, ironcurse icon: 245

*Heroes*
Necrotect: 60
Liche priest [Nehekaran lore] (level 2) with Book of Ashur: 175

*Core*
Skeleton warriors x 42 with light armor, spears, master of arms, standard bearer, musician: 282
Skeleton archers x 15: 90
Skeleton horse archers x 8 with master of scouts: 122
Skeleton chariot x 3 with master of chariots, standard bearer: 175

*Special*
Khemrian Warsphinx with firey roar: 230
Khemrian Warsphinx with firey roar: 230

*Rare*
Casket of Souls: 135
-------------

[Jind_Singh]

spears are a no go for me - i prefer hand weapon and shields on skeletons to minimize the damage directed on them. They are best used when just 5 wide, run them deep = the less models that can attack you back, the more chance you'll lose less to crumble! But horde formation does look sweet.....situational - if you're up against a really hard hitting combat army go narrow, against weaker units or similar units go horde! An advantage (slight) of being Tomb Kings is you don't lose movement from doing a swift reform - since other armies either march their double move OR reform and make a normal move, you don't care as you can never march anyway! That's why I'd drop the banner in the chariots and give a musician to one of the other units.

Be very careful about were you place the Heriophant as while he's good in a unit of archers, you don't really have the number of units on the field to protect that archer unit! Baby sit the unit VERY carefully! I think I would deploy the skeleton warriors, sphinx on each side of the block, the chariots to one side, the archers behind the units - their job isn't to shoot, it's to keep my caster alive! I MAY have them slightly off to one side so they can shoot between the gap of the core combat unit and a sphinx.

Drop the standard on the chariot unit also - it doesn't take long to crumble them and you can't raise the unit standard back I think (going from memory here!).

The presence of a level 4 AND a Casket means you'll be really putting a strain on the power dice - the second level 2 is going to be redundant a lot of the time as he will be taking away from the level 4 or the Casket. He is also a liability as he needs protecting, which you can't do as you have room for him!!

Drop him and either bulk up your units, add in some protection for the necrotect, or add another type of unit! How much is a stock Herald BSB for e.g.? Adds some punch to the main block and reduces crumble by 1 - handy for those constructs! Also allows you a magic banner - armor piercing would be handy as would banner of eternal flame

[-Totenkopf-]

Welcome! good choice on TK, my personal favorite, well, one of the anyways. Without taking tomb guard, you don't have a real combat unit.. I don't have anymore than 10 tomb guard. I just dont enjoy painting them like i do with the rest of my army.. It took me a while to figure out how to win with no combat block.. This is compounded by the fact that I don't bring block units of skellies either...

Looking at your list, its great for what it is, and that is a new list with limited models.. If you like sphinx, and necro knights, stalkers, caskets and custom hiero titans/colossi, then the good news is, you can still win games!! despite most internet wisdom you will receive around here..

So, my critiques are that i would drop the king and make him a prince and lvl 2 with light and possibly give your second lvl 2 light. place one with your horse archers. Two lords at 2000 pts feels a tad high.. also, I would drop the book of ashur and pick up a dispell scroll.. TK do well with some of the other low point magic items, like, channeling staff, enkhils kanopi, earthing rod, power stone, DRAGONBANE GEM/HELM or for some sneaky stuff, the scrol of mighty incantations.. Lore of light works with ours so well, it's scary.. combining the skellies into one unit was a good move one or two blocks of 50 will perfrom great for you because they provide the ability to "tie-up" your opponents nasty combat blocks or unbreakable/steadfast units you can't deal with in the moment..

advice going forward..
Chariots are fantastic.. Large blocks or several smaller ones.. OR a good combo of both
Casket is a good buy, but not the auto include that people seem to think
Necroknights are great, 3 isn't the ideal number for them. 4 - 6 seems to be what works. (stalkers can be built with some a little green stuff and the left over bits. don't listen to the web, these guys can win games!!)
catapults work but only well in groups
magnetize your sphinxes so you have options for either!
if you want to go infantry, tomb guard can be amazing
ushabti look incredible but are serious underperformers

good news is, to really expand your army, you mostly only need "fun" stuff...

good luck

[dark7element]

Thanks for the additional advice. I made some significant changes, the biggest being dropping my Tomb King for a Prince, changing around the magic items on my casters, and dropping the casket and one of the war-sphinxes in favor of a 6-strong unit of Necropolis Knights and an additional priest. These guys look pretty bad-ass, both in terms of the models and in their game stats.

*Lords*
Liche High Priest [Nehekaran lore], level 4, talisman of preservation, and earthing rod: 255

*Heroes*
Tomb Prince with Blade of Antarhak and shield: 154
Necrotect: 60
Liche priest [Light lore] (level 2) with channeling staff: 120
Liche priest [Nehekaran lore] with sceptre of stability: 85

*Core*
Skeleton warriors x 42 with light armor, spears, full command: 282
Skeleton archers x 15: 90
Skeleton horse archers x 8: 112
Skeleton chariot x 3 with master of chariots: 165

*Special*
Khemrian Warsphinx with firey roar: 230
Necropolis knights x 6 with full command: 420
------

It's a lot of magic-users for a 2000 point army, I know, but the skeletons really need magic in order to actually win combats (I would think... I'm still a noob, remember). I'm really averse to adding Tomb Guard, because the models are obnoxiously expensive ($4 each for plastic infantry!) and look like they would be a hassle to paint. Judging from what Jind_Singh said, I'm not the only one who thinks so.

As far as equipping the skeleton warriors, I must not be understanding the rules, because I can't see any reason why you would ever NOT want large-block infantry to have spears. It's an extra supporting attack for one point per model.

[dark7element]

[Double post]

[Algovil]

Well, skeletons are not that strong in combat, even with high WS. Since they are useful for holding units up the parry save could be better IMO. I would not use spears.

I believe you only get one (1) supporting attack for monstrous cavalry, therefore 6 of them is unnecessary and very expensive, maybe only 3-4 would be better.

The casket is the best model in the TK range in my opinion =) it is cheap in points and have good rules, I would absolutely use it, especially since you have lot of wizards, the extra PD is great!

I rather have more archers than horse archers!


BTW I never owned a TK army, this is purely theoretical, looking at stats and rules and comparing to other armies.

[Jind_Singh]

Mons cav give 3 support attacks

[Algovil]

But is it not only the rider that has up to 3 supporting attacks and the mount cannot, just like normal horses cannot, make supporting attacks!? So that would be 2 attacks from the rider, compared to 2+3 attacks+stomp for first rank, which is a big difference. That is because Demigryphs/Mournfangs are very popular in 3-4 but not really in bigger units.

[Skywave]

It is true. But in the case of Necro Knights, it's still 2 S5 (on the charge) attack with killing blow, wich isn't that bad. Plus, they can actually benefit from smiting to get their full 3 attack from the back

For your list, what I see is no musician in your Archers and Chariots. I would advise you to take one for them, or anything that can shoot. Being able to reform and shoot in the same turn is too good to not get it. Since the army is slow a lot of things can just run/fly behind you, so keeping the ability to shoot them can be vital.

Also I would say to drop the Horsemen to 5 models. This unit is there to annoy and delay, so too many of them is just more free point for the enemy. Keep them as cheap as possible.

[-Totenkopf-]

they dont have to be in the same unit.. 2 units of 3 are a better way to go.. 1 unit of 4 is also a good way to run them..
8 horse archers is plenty and a solid number..
there are lots of opinions on magic out there and what is a good number of casters.. For the TK army a lvl 4 and 2 lvl 2s is one of the best ways to go.. It allows you to spread your magic around, giving you a magic phase most of if not all of the game and the single most important thing about the magic phase in general is choice.. Dont expect each mage to cast all his spells every turn, or even attempt to for that matter.. Its about having options and multiple threats and or solutions for a variety of situations throughout the game..

as for your list.. play with it.. one change you can make would be to drop 2 necro knights and trim some command/magic options to fit in another sphinx.. Also, as said before, drop the spears and go HW S

One more thing... The prince is not really there to kill anything.. He is a WS boost. I would think about dropping the sword and making him more survivable..

[tarrym]

One more thing... The prince is not really there to kill anything.. He is a WS boost. I would think about dropping the sword and making him more survivable..

I started off thinking like this when equipping my Tomb Kings/Princes. Within my gaming group the Banner of Eternal flame (or other flaming attacks for that matter) are reasonably rare, so the Sword of Antarhak does actually work out as a defensive weapon - it can heal your character or give him a 4+ regen save. Combined with his relatively high toughness and wounds for a hero character this forces your opponent to send something serious after him to take him down - the odd lucky rank and file attack won't do it.

Admittedly this depends on your local meta game. As soon as your opponents bring flaming attacks he is screwed and you need a different setup which includes one of the dragonbane items

[dark7element]

I'd like to thank all of you for your helpful advice. Since the opinion was more or less unanimous, I removed the spears on the skeleton warriors. I also split the necropolis knights into two units of three, rearranged my items a bit, and got musicians for the chariots and archers (I'm pretty sure the horse archers don't need them). I'm confident this will be my final list and the one I buy models for. Especially since I don't really feel like revising it further, and it's reasonably economical (hero models cost less to buy than extra monsters or troops).

*Lords*
Liche High Priest [Nehekaran lore], level 4, talisman of preservation, and earthing rod: 255

*Heroes*
Tomb Prince with Blade of Antarhak and shield: 154
Necrotect: 60
Liche priest [Death lore] (level 2) with channeling staff: 120
Liche priest [Nehekaran lore] with dispel scroll: 95

*Core*
Skeleton warriors x 42 with light armor, full command: 240
Skeleton archers x 14 with musician: 94
Skeleton horse archers x 8: 112
Skeleton chariot x 3 with master of chariots and musician: 175

*Special*
Khemrian Warsphinx with firey roar: 230
Necropolis knights x 3 with necropolis captain and standard bearer: 215
Necropolis knights x 3 with necropolis captain and standard bearer: 215

[Skywave]

Your list come out at 2033pts, as you miscalculated a few things.

High Liche is 280, Tomb Prince is 152, Chariots are 185.

If you want to cut points, remove the musician for the Necro Knights, and the helm on the Necrotect is a bit useless too. I would run him naked personally. He only grant a 1 turn buff, and the item you gave him won't help him survive if the enemy really want to kill him. Or you can cut an Horse Archer as another option. Otherwise, and it's a personal preference here, I would put a standard instead of a champion with your Chariots and Necro Knights, otherwise you'll have a hard time playing the scenario Blood and Glory.