Building a pre heresy 30k army, to use for both IA:HH when it comes out and 40k 6th

[archangels uk]

Hi guys, not sure if its the correct sub forum or not as it isnt yet chapter specific (yet!)

Not played 40k for a good few years now, used to play 2nd ed back in the day but for the past few years have been a fluffer reading all the BL HH books and after the annocement of IA HH tipped the balance to make me start again. I want to create a fluffy pre hh army that can also be used for normal 40k.

Seeing as forgeworld do quite a few HH era models I am assuming this will not be phased out or totally replaced by models when the IA HH is released (heres hoping) and I will need a few months to collect and most importantly paint them so want to get a good base of troops ready before IA HH is out (october time iirc?).

I am thinking a core of Corvus Crusade Iron Maximus and Heresey armoured troops, Tartaros terminator armour (Is Indomitus armour the current TDA?) and contemplator dreads, HH era assault troops and thats basically it for now? of course all are FW models. And then theres the armour which bar LR and rhinos i am not decided on what to get yet, maybe some super heavy tanks but of course would only be useful in 30k as they will be chapter colourings

Would be adding jet bikes, battle armoured dreadnoughts primarches and IC and command squads would IA HH is out i think.

Any suggestions as to what else is on the market now that would be good to collect?

Also what wouldnt be used for 40k (i.e tourny style games rather then friendly) contemplator dreads, battle armoured dreads, jet bikes, primarch and whatever IC's they bring out and superheavys and other armour, I will later on add replacement for these i.e current IC's and normal dreads for use in 40k

What suggestions for armour are there both 30k and 40k?

Then theres which chapter to use that can be used for both 30 and 40k, i am currently thinking Raven Guard as the colours havent changed, always had a soft spot for DA's but the black to green is a, well not a massive change but a big enough one in fluff, Opinions please guys?

[Tayrod]

This does not answer your question at all, but Im obliged to ask; What's IA HH?

[archangels uk]

Imperial Armour Horus Heresy, I seem to remember reading thats what the HH line by FW will be called but now i cant remember exactly where I got that from?

[agurus1]

There a YouTube video or so I have heard

[Chem-Dog]

There a YouTube video or so I have heard

See with your own eyes!

[jedideinos]

Then theres which chapter to use that can be used for both 30 and 40k, i am currently thinking Raven Guard as the colours havent changed, always had a soft spot for DA's but the black to green is a, well not a massive change but a big enough one in fluff, Opinions please guys?

Raven Guard could be good: the basic colours are the same, but the markings have changed. HH era Ravens had solid blocks of colour on their right shoulder pad, indicating whether they were tactical, assault or devastator. Now it's the shoulder pad rims that have that role. Off the top of my head, I can't recall (thinking of the INdex Astartes books and articles) a chapter that didn't change its markings in some way after the Heresy.
Having said that, I wouldn't let that stop me. I'd paint them Heresy era style, and just write some fluff explaining why they retained the older scheme.

[archangels uk]

Thats what I researched the other day, just one shoulder pad being different with different markings for which role they fulfil. Seeing as RG where active at Istavvan and during the HH and their primarch surivived they are a good choice imo.

Whats the colours for imperial fists pre HH and post?

Just been researching armour, FW do a mk1c rhino so thats that sorted, they also do a mk2 Proteus LR and so does Machinantor (sp) which looks damn good, then theres the LR Spartan and the Achilles and the standard predator and vindicator. Then for the super heavys its the fellblade or Flachion sp

LR's after HH are
Crusader
Redeemer
Ares
Helios
Prometheus
And terminus ultra

No Whirlwinds or razorbacks, no pred annihilators


What I would plan to do for the LR is put magnets every where so I could use them in 30k or 40k with a different variant.

My list for vehicles so far will be along the lines or 3 FW mk1c Rhino' (I would possibly get a few Razorback turrets in case I want to use RB in 40k), LR Achilles and a couple of normal LR's which I'll put magnets everywhere on so I can change the layouts easy enough, I would think about converting them to mk11a with Machinators parts, the FW LR Proteus has only got experimental rules so dont want to drop 85quid on it to not be able to use it in offical or tourny games, same with the Spartan.

I'd get 2 preds and again magnets on turret and sponsers to swap loadout and 2 contemplator dreads.

Squad wise, thinking of 4 full tac squads two Corvus armoured and one Iron as I like the look and one Heresy armoured, these buggars add up a lot as i have to get guns seperate for them, two 10 man squads of terminators, one Tartaros and the other will be cataphract as I have found quite a few companies now doing the shouldr pads but as to terms to put them on i am not sure yet, quite possibly newer ones as the tartaros ones only come with ranged weapons no LC's. And finally two squads of Assault troops one mk2 and maybe one mk6 as they havent got the aquilla on there.

I think that will give me a solid ish base to start with and bar the contemplators everything will be usuable in tournys etc and 30 and 40k.

And yes I have added up what everything will cost damn GW... ha

[Fizzy]

You should go with them. Dont buy too much before the book releases.

I am starting a sons of horus army. Got Horus here already.


Edit: Will the book play out during Horus Heresy or before?

Could be good knowing for my army so I know wich kind of armors I should buy.

[archangels uk]

From what i have read it will start around istaavan so iron crusade and maximus armour will be used then with corvus and heresy coming later in the HH.

Relised earlier then the Tartaros terminator armour has eagles across the chest, how unfuffy

[Fizzy]

Would not be to hard to remove

[jifel]

I'm sorry, but the ides of "Contemplator dreadnaughts" makes me laugh... I can just imagine a Contemptor dread modeled in a "thinking man" pose...

Anyways! Yes, I am also building an army that I hope to use for both Codex: csm AND imperial armor HH, of which neither are released! Wonderful! At the moment I just have "the basics" which is a rhino, a magnetized contemptor, and 20 tactical marines. I also have 8 Terminators that I can create a fairly balanced loadout for a 5 man Squad. Then I have a bunch of random HQs, but getting one more won't be too bad in a few months.

However, I personally use regular GW tactical Marines with heads from Maxmini instead of the all Resin FW pieces. (although I may do that for veterans or something.)

[The Warmaster]

I am thinking a core of Corvus Crusade Iron Maximus and Heresey armoured troops, Tartaros terminator armour (Is Indomitus armour the current TDA?) and contemplator dreads, HH era assault troops and thats basically it for now? of course all are FW models. And then theres the armour which bar LR and rhinos i am not decided on what to get yet, maybe some super heavy tanks but of course would only be useful in 30k as they will be chapter colourings

...

Then theres which chapter to use that can be used for both 30 and 40k, i am currently thinking Raven Guard as the colours havent changed, always had a soft spot for DA's but the black to green is a, well not a massive change but a big enough one in fluff, Opinions please guys?

Raven Guard would be the best way to go, I'd think - Ultramarines and IFs are also somewhat similar, but not entirely. If you're going to include Heresy and Corvus armour though, you'd have to be doing post-Dropsite RG to do it in a fluffy manner, since Delieverance Lost goes into detail about how the RG not only invented Mark V suits (before a standardised version was put into production by the Mechanicum, anyway), but were also the first Legion issued with Corvus armour due to their role in testing the prototypes in the later Crusade. That would be a great excuse to use the unique Corvus bits in the Raven Guard upgrade kit, although I'd limit Corvus specifically to Vanguard Vets (no jump packs? I forget if they had them...) to reflect the Raptor specialists described in that book (whether you'd want to do them pre- or post-mutation or not would be up to you), as well as to officers and some other veterans.

As for vehicles/walkers, Contemptors would be a great option. Depending on what loadout you give them (you could magnetise the parts if you want to be able to swap them), you could easily use them both as Contemptors as per the FW rules, and as stand-ins for regular Dreadnoughts. As for tanks, I'm not sure what super-heavies I'd go for, but apart from its increased size, the Spartan could both work with the FW rules and as a regular LR stand-in for those non-Forge World games that you might be playing (the Proteus could also work, but it lacks the frontal assault ramp). Maybe use a Baneblade as a counts-as Fellblade (its predecessor, IIRC).

Oh, and for Terminator armour? Yes, the Indomitus is the current pattern that we have a plastic kit for (it says so in Codex: Space Wolves, if you're wondering), and that could work fine (all Terminator marks that we know of were technically around during the late Crusade and Heresy), but since it was likely only limited to Legions like the Imperial Fists (I've always assumed it was limited to Mars and a few other key Forge Worlds at the time, while the Cataphractii pattern was the most widespread due to it being cheaper, easy to maintain, and ultimately expendable), I'd go for either Tartaros with the aquilas/Crux Terminatus icons removed, or convert/wait for Cataphractii.

However, I personally use regular GW tactical Marines with heads from Maxmini instead of the all Resin FW pieces. (although I may do that for veterans or something.)

Assuming you don't limit yourself to the Mark V and VI pieces from those kits, all I have to say is this:

Post-Heresy, Post-Heresy everywhere.

[Fizzy]

Sorry but don't make a Pre heresy army without the right equipment. Save up for the real stuff or buy it used.

[jifel]

Assuming you don't limit yourself to the Mark V and VI pieces from those kits, all I have to say is this:

Post-Heresy, Post-Heresy everywhere.

Yeah... some of the torsos aren't quite appropriate (although I have at least refrained from using any aquillas. That's just wrong.) Still, the heads look right, and everything else fits (kinda) without looking too off. FW is a bit expensive for a High Schooler!

[avatarofportent]

This is something I am almost finished with. I'm just painting up the last of my command squad and my sternguard.

[archangels uk]

Raven Guard would be the best way to go, I'd think - Ultramarines and IFs are also somewhat similar, but not entirely. If you're going to include Heresy and Corvus armour though, you'd have to be doing post-Dropsite RG to do it in a fluffy manner, since Delieverance Lost goes into detail about how the RG not only invented Mark V suits (before a standardised version was put into production by the Mechanicum, anyway), but were also the first Legion issued with Corvus armour due to their role in testing the prototypes in the later Crusade. That would be a great excuse to use the unique Corvus bits in the Raven Guard upgrade kit, although I'd limit Corvus specifically to Vanguard Vets (no jump packs? I forget if they had them...) to reflect the Raptor specialists described in that book (whether you'd want to do them pre- or post-mutation or not would be up to you), as well as to officers and some other veterans.

As for vehicles/walkers, Contemptors would be a great option. Depending on what loadout you give them (you could magnetise the parts if you want to be able to swap them), you could easily use them both as Contemptors as per the FW rules, and as stand-ins for regular Dreadnoughts. As for tanks, I'm not sure what super-heavies I'd go for, but apart from its increased size, the Spartan could both work with the FW rules and as a regular LR stand-in for those non-Forge World games that you might be playing (the Proteus could also work, but it lacks the frontal assault ramp). Maybe use a Baneblade as a counts-as Fellblade (its predecessor, IIRC).

Oh, and for Terminator armour? Yes, the Indomitus is the current pattern that we have a plastic kit for (it says so in Codex: Space Wolves, if you're wondering), and that could work fine (all Terminator marks that we know of were technically around during the late Crusade and Heresy), but since it was likely only limited to Legions like the Imperial Fists (I've always assumed it was limited to Mars and a few other key Forge Worlds at the time, while the Cataphractii pattern was the most widespread due to it being cheaper, easy to maintain, and ultimately expendable), I'd go for either Tartaros with the aquilas/Crux Terminatus icons removed, or convert/wait for Cataphractii.



Assuming you don't limit yourself to the Mark V and VI pieces from those kits, all I have to say is this:

Post-Heresy, Post-Heresy everywhere.

I'd wait until IA HH comes out before doing the raptors I think hopefully they may get some models or more rules info to point me in a better direction and yes ive read Delieverance Lost and clearly remember the exchange of armour with the IF's, hence why I want at least two squads of pre HH armour to use in Istaavan games maybe I'll get another squad of tacs cant see me using more then 3 tac squads in one game?. Got to have at least two tac units of Corvus though seeing as its 'the' RG armour really. Saying that the bar a few smaller and fluffy engagments how active where RG after Istvaan I would assume a few sugerical strikes here and there as seen in the end of Delieverance Lost.

The RG armour upgrades do look cool but seeing as each FW tac squad will be costing in the region of 60pounds adding that on top will start to get expensive thats going to put them in the same cost area as the FW terms so maybe for one vet squad as you say?

The spartan is a big old piece of kit and so is the proteus and I think i would prefer having normal land raiders converted to proteus style theres a pic below I quickly found of one of his WIP shots, at least that way I can magnetise the sponsers and turrets so I can use them as different/modern variants in 'normal' 40k. Again for the cost of the proteus and spartan to not be able to use them in tourny style games I think I will give them a miss, might add a spartan later on as they do look bad ass being that big though.

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/a...8/IMG_1655.jpg

As for the terminator armour, do i really want to spend 75quid and have to convert it?, I think the intial list i will be running will be with assault squads rather then terminators so I may leave the terminators for a few months and see what happens with them

Thanks for the suggestions though, it has proven a lot more of a thinking mans army so far then if I just went to gw store and bought a load, thinking these lot will look pretty darn cool espically after seeing SCC's paint jobs on his Raven Guard

Sorry but don't make a Pre heresy army without the right equipment. Save up for the real stuff or buy it used.

I did have a gander on ebay and there is one seller here in the UK selling unused FW tac squads in the earlier mk's armour, they are making just a few pounds under the FW new price so I cant see the point in saving 1.50pounds at the current auction price, the same with the russian 'recasts' they work out as being the same price as buying from FW so there is zero point in even thinking of buying like that

This is something I am almost finished with. I'm just painting up the last of my command squad and my sternguard.

Dont leave us hanging, pictures?

Also what was the status of Scouts during the HH? cant place any in the BL books ?

[Narf]

for heresy era jump packs check out maxmini's iron and bronze jump packs.

http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.ph...roducts_id=157

http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.ph...roducts_id=154

[agurus1]

have to say, if yo have you heart set on raven guard go for it, but it would also be interesting to model some Pre-Heresy Imperial Army units maybe to take as allies?

[archangels uk]

The FW marines are going to cost enough as it is and take me long enough to paint!. Played my first game today in quite a few years and luckly had a really good friendly and helpful opponent, had a lot of fun, espically with my rolling skills, its either a 1 or a 6 usually a 1!. It was at a club that purely play 40k and is within ok distance even more so for it being a sunday and I have another local club very close to me on a wednesday which I will be going to on wednesday for the first time so that makes it more worth while as I wouldnt have restarted if I couldnt get a game at least once a week, hopefully i'll be getting a couple.

Waiting for the starter box set to come out then I'll start getting some proper models from FW, lots of paint dice etc