Grey Hunters: Wolf Guard or second special weapon?

[agurus1]

Hey there Warseer, so the title pretty much says it all is it worth taking a Wolf Guard for a 9 man Grey Hunter Squad in a Rhino, or is it better to just go 10 Grey Hunters with 2 special weapons in a Rhino? Thanks!

[wanderingblade]

Imo, this is horses for courses.

If you expect the squad to be getting into close combats and driving enemies off of objectives, then I'd probably go with the Wolf Guard.

And if you expect the squad to sit on an objective and lend close fire support, I'd probably take two special weapons.

But that's a rough rule of thumb, and you can't tell what exactly you'll need in each situation anyway. In my only two battles yet (so take my advice with a pinch of salt) I rocked with two units with Wolf Guard, one unit without - for me, that seems a sensible compromise, but its up to you.

If I was to err on one side as a standard, it would be the w/WG if I could afford it - as I quite like that Ld 9, thankyou very much.

[Str10_hurts]

Depends on your armylist and regular opponents you face.

In general the Ld9 is worth more than a special weapon, though where in the first month of 6th so who knows...

[agurus1]

Well if I had a plasma squad, that should probably be dual special weapons yes? Then I'll stick WG in the GH melta squads that will be advancing?

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Well if I had a plasma squad, that should probably be dual special weapons yes? Then I'll stick WG in the GH melta squads that will be advancing?

Another option is an 11-man squad with both benefits; stuff 6 of them into a Razorback, 5 of them in the back. With most of the game being objectives based it'll be fine for those; during the KP mission sit back toast people from afar. This gives you double plas with a WG holding something you think you need (Combi flamer, Melta or plasma. Pick your poison. I'd go with Plas.)

I'd consider going cheap with an HB RB if going this way, that way you can get more killy things in elsewhere; but I like quantity over quality, so that's me.

[wanderingblade]

Another option is an 11-man squad with both benefits; stuff 6 of them into a Razorback, 5 of them in the back. With most of the game being objectives based it'll be fine for those; during the KP mission sit back toast people from afar. This gives you double plas with a WG holding something you think you need (Combi flamer, Melta or plasma. Pick your poison. I'd go with Plas.)

I'd consider going cheap with an HB RB if going this way, that way you can get more killy things in elsewhere; but I like quantity over quality, so that's me.

Space Wolves don't get combat squads, so they can't split up troops that way. Which is a shame.

Well if I had a plasma squad, that should probably be dual special weapons yes? Then I'll stick WG in the GH melta squads that will be advancing?

Well, that's the way I did it, so I hope it makes sense...

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Space Wolves don't get combat squads, so they can't split up troops that way. Which is a shame.



Well, that's the way I did it, so I hope it makes sense...

Well... derp. I forgot.

[Laser guided fanatic]

Go for both, 2 special weapons is too good to turn down but then again so is a wolf guard pack leader, I run 3 11 men grey hunter squads footslogging and have plans for some IG allies to act as a meatshield

[Squallish]

I think footslogging Wolves got a lot better, so this is my theory:

4-5 x 10 with 2 Plasmaguns, Banner, Wolfguard in Terminator armour up front, LoS any AP2 to grunts
2 Cyclone Missiles Termies to Longfang units
3 x 5 Long Fangs
Rune Priest(s) with Long Fangs
Remaining 3-4 Wolfguard with combi-Meltas in a pod

With good unit spacing, your whole army pretty much starts with a 2+ save.. and you have a lot of move-fire dakka.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Seems interesting. I'd probably use 3 pods though. Putting a pair of units into the enemy on T1 is worth the 35 point tax. These could be two of the GH units and just use meltas on these ones (as you want them in combat.) Let the 3ish GH units with 11 move up the field plasma-ing stuff.

I agree with running with mixed armor to get good results; though... I don't know... seems *really* dangerous to put him up front. 6 regular saves in you'll lose your most important model in the squad (being more reliable firepower, fist, etc...) Do you *know* how many saves can be put on a unit in one turn from like... shootas n stuff?

A lot/loadsa.

I'd rather run him in termi armor for the free storm bolter and fist. SW termies are exceptionally cheap for all the free stuff they get. Consider the problem though; that WG termies in GH units prevent the unit from sweeping. This may be a big issue against Necrons, Tau, IG, etc.. who will frequently fail and you already just used a turn to "kill" them. If you didn't and have the chance to sweep you *need* to or you just afforded them free rapid firing into your unit for little benefit.

[Laser guided fanatic]

Wolf termies don't get fists for free.

I like the idea of running a dual PP wolf guard in a double plasma gun grey hunter squad though

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

I'm so forgetful with that dang codex. Still, "free" power weapon.

[Chapters Unwritten]

You can also give a Grey Hunter a plasma pistol. That's 7 plasma shots at 12" range...pretty gross.

[agurus1]

I was thinking of using 3 GH squads in 1750 points, 2 with meltas and 1 with plasma, I guess the plasma one will go in a rhino, and I was going to put one melta in a land raider, and one in a rhino, and have 5 termi's with my lord in a LR-redeemer

so basically is it worth putting a WG in my 2 melta squads who will be attempting to storm my opponents deployment zone with my termi's and lord?

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Depends. You will be exchanging a melta for the WG, which is a tough call. Now that kraks and melee are better, you might be able to get away with just a melta/combi-melta. Plus, if you're upgrading the GH to a wolfguard; it's basically just adding 1-attack to a unit that has what.. a trillion? The points are probably best spent elsewhere unless you're giving him a Frost-axe or something; but that's dangerous.

[agurus1]

Well yeah its an exchange of a meltagun so around 5 shots a game, for a 1 shot melta, a frost weapon, +1 attack and +1 leadership to the squad as a whole, plus the chance for precision shots/attack in CC. guess when I say it that way its a bit of a more obvious choice, especially considering that the melta won't be in range for about 2 turns anyway most likely

[Chapters Unwritten]

The big thing I think people are missing out without Guards is the ability to answer challenges, and thus protect the other troops in the squad in ugly CCs. So for me, the uglier the opponent's CC, the more likely I am to take a Wolf Guard.

[Mandragola]

My current list has 3 squads in rhinos with plasma guns and one in a pod with meltas. No wolf guard.

I think rhinos still make sense for shooty units. Deploying guys on foot is still too risky I think. People still have guns, last I heard.

[wanderingblade]

Well yeah its an exchange of a meltagun so around 5 shots a game, for a 1 shot melta, a frost weapon, +1 attack and +1 leadership to the squad as a whole, plus the chance for precision shots/attack in CC. guess when I say it that way its a bit of a more obvious choice, especially considering that the melta won't be in range for about 2 turns anyway most likely

I really don't think this one is a difficult call in the circs - if you're going to be in his deployment zone, then close combat is an overwhelming likelihood. Either he has decent units hanging around that he'll re-route to cause mischief for you, or the only things there are outrageously shooty and close combat is a safer place to be. That's how I've found/see it anyway. So, in the circs, you're going to get a relatively limited number of opportunities to use your meltagun - less than the opportunities to use the extra power weapon and attack.

It comes out at 13 points extra for the Wolf Guard with power weapon. You'd be paying more than that to stick a power weapon on an ordinary trooper. It's probably the most cost effective way of adding some extra combat oomph to a unit that's going to need it, before you even consider the leadership bonus.

[agurus1]

good call, and yeah I think a basic rhino is more viable than on foot, I come from a pretty good IG background and marines on foot just gets me excited to start placing my leman russ pieplates yummy!!!