New Army for Tournaments 2013 - High Elves (2500pts)

[untimention]

Fantasy Army: BoC

Hi warseer,

I've started a new army (high elves).

I've played a few games with them and not won many - typically i've won smaller point games.

Anyways i don't own a single painted army (and this is my 6th army) so i've decided to brave a tournament next year with High Elves meaning i need to paint and play lots.


I've come up with a new list and would be keen to understand feedback:

Lord:

Lev 4 Archmage - Seer Staff (choose spells), Talisman of Preservation (4+ ward), Dispell scroll - 360pts

Hero:

Noble BSB - Heavy Armour and shield, battle banner - 196pts

Core:

32 spearmen - full command + flaming banner - 323pts

31 spearmen - full command - 304pts

Special:

7 Dragon Princes - standard and champion with foe bane (wound on a 2+ is he is fighting a multi wound model) - 275pts

12 Phoenix Guard - standard with banner of sorcery - 242pts

21 White Lions - full command and standard of balance (neutralises frenzy and hatred in the enemy and gives them Immune to psychology) - 390pts

10 Sword Masters - full command - 180ts

10 Sword masters - full command - 180ts

Great Eagle - 50pts



Okay so ideas/ tactics

Archmage - no idea what lore to use, any suggestions? i've tried a few but never seem to pick the right one. I would stick the archmage with the phoenix guard

Noble would go with the white lions as they only have 1 attack each so are likely to take damage in return so his D6+1 can help a lot to the combat res

Spearmen i would play 12" up and would play them deep to try and keep them steadyfast

Dragon Princes would kill any small units or hero's in small units then come back to help

Eagle is just 50pts free and atleast will attract some fire-power as everything else moves up!

Sword masters would sit a little behind the spearmen and on the flanks in the hope that they can counter and support



Would really appriciate feedback and i'm sure i will up-date/ change and maybe even post some pics when i start painting

[untimention]

Another option with this list is to merge the spearmen unit together using the swordmasters to stop people flanking them so they would have to charge in with c50 attacks going first!

[Dirty Mac]

Firstly I play Dark Elves, so I am reluctant to help scum.

That being said, You should list the reasons why you think you are losing games.

Little units of 10 SM's wont last long, to shooting, you need to get your combat units in to combat, and you need at least another eagle to help control the Movement phase.
I would also take a Lvl 2 mage, as a scroll caddy, and to support casting.


Here is a sample list.

2500 Pts - High Elves Roster


1 Archmage, 260 pts (General; Level 4 Upgrade;


1 Noble (Battle Standard Bearer), 110 pts

1 Mage, 155 pts (Level 2
1 Dispel Scroll


30 Spearmen, 310 pts FC
1 Banner of Swiftness


13 Archers, 158 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;

13 Archers, 158 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std;

1 Great Eagle, 50 pts (Swift Stride; Flyer; Stomp)


1 Great Eagle, 50 pts (Swift Stride; Flyer; Stomp)


18 Sword Masters of Hoeth, 288 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer


21 White Lions of Chrace, 370 pts FC
The Amulet of Light
Banner of Eternal Flame


1 Lion Chariot of Chrace, 140 pts

1 Lion Chariot of Chrace, 140 pts

Total Roster Cost: 2189

I have left you 300 points for magic items you could drop the chariots if you really wanted to.

Have a look at that list. HE are fragile, and if they don't have enough troops to weather the storm, they will lose combat.
Eagles probably won't draw the fire you are expecting. use them to redirect, March block, tie units up in to combat so you can flank charge them, and to run down fleeing enemy troops. Put White Lions opposite missile troops cause they have a better save. Take High or life on you Lvl 4 and fire on the lvl 2, Fire ball is an awesome spell.

[untimention]

Thanks for all the feedback thus far, really useful and i will keep some of the notes given for if i find this list isn't working for me.

Anyways, a good point was made about the BSB in that i can't mindrazor the spearmen so i have re-written the list with some minor changes


2500pts

Lord:

Archmage - Silver Wand and Talisman of preservation - 315pts (SHADOW)

Hero:

Noble BSB - Armour of caledor (which uses the dragon armour rules as well), great weapon, guardian phoenix - 143pts

Core:

10 Archers - 110pta

53 Spearmen - full command, banner of arcane protection - 536pts

Special:

7 Dragon Princes - Standard with flaming banner, champion with foe bane - 285pts

15 Phoenix Guard - standard with banner of scorcery - 257pts

21 White Lions - Full command and standard of balance - 390pts

10 Sword masters - full command - 180pts

10 Sword masters - full command - 180pts

Rare:

1 Great Eagle - 50pts

1 Great Eagle - 50pts

[wisetiger7]

I’m pretty sure the other two don’t know much about High Elves so I’ll go ahead and comment. (W/L/D:24/8/5)

1. A problem with your first list is that you can’t have a Seerstaff and a Dispel Scroll as they are both Arcane Items. A Seerstaff on an Archmage is pointless, and here’s why: 10 points for a Silver Wand will get you pretty much everything you need in a lore, being able to roll for 5 spells is practically as good as choosing 4, and 20 points cheaper.

2. You need some kind of protection on your Archmage because he is going to do the most damage, whichever lore you take. Whether it be FoRobe/TaliSaph or BoWD in a PG bus, you need to keep him alive. My favorite is Silver Wand, Folariath’s Robe, and Talisman of Saphery. 5 spells, magical attacks become mundane, can only be hit by magical attacks. Not perfect, but pretty good. Especially in a bunker of spears.

3. Battle banner is pointless. There is only one thing that should go on a BSB – Banner of the World Dragon. If you aren’t using it, give him magic armor. Period.

4. Never overspend on Core. Our elites are the best thing in our army besides magic. You need to reserve as many points as possible for Specials. Keep Core at 25%.

5. 5 Dragon Princes, 6 would be pushing it. NEVER 7. It’s a waste of points and doesn’t do much except make wheeling take more movement. Amulet of Light and either Banner of Balance or Standard of Discipline are good on them.

6. White lion unit is too big. For the most part, in each of our special units, you want everyone to be able to attack first round of combat. That means no stragglers in the back ranks not pulling their own weight. I say 14 because you want two ranks, and most people run 7 wide to get more attacks on an enemy’s 5-wide formation. Banner of Eternal Flame makes sure these guys take out hydras and abombs.

7. Try to run LSG if you can for core. The versatility is tremendous early on. Flaming banner is okay on them if you have Curse of Arrow Attraction vs hellpit/hydra. For two points more per model, you get 24” bow on top of your spears. I run 25 LSG with FC and shields and usually Banner of Arcane Protection as my mage bunker.

8. I almost always have a back up mage. If I run Silver Wand on my Archmage, then I run seerstaff on the back up if I want spell combos. Enfeebling Foe to reduce Strength by D3 on a unit, then casting Dwellers on them which makes them take a Strength test is hilarious. Or double Dwellers/Flames of the Phoenix can be fun too. Yes, the lack of having a Dispel Scroll can be scary, but at the same time, you are going to utterly dominate the magic phase. If all you need is a scroll caddy, then take a level 1 with the Dispell Scroll and the Ruby Ring of Fire and go lore of Fire. Two fireballs a turn makes him not useless.

9. Swordmasters are awesome. But always put something on them. Amulet of Light on a Bladelord or Gleaming Pennant, something. Never send them in bare. Give them a role besides just “hack away”.

As for the other comments, never use swordmasters as a way to prevent flanking, always use them TO FLANK. They are tremendous at taking on units that won’t be hitting them back hard.

Also, banner of swiftness is pointless. Archers should be in groups of 10, not 13. They should always have a Muse, no champ or banner. And remember: never more than 14 of ANY infantry elites.

Lion Chariots are a hoot, and are great utility, on top of the fact that they hit crazy hard.

At 2500 points, you want at least two eagles or an eagle and a unit of 5 reavers. You NEED to redirect and warmachine hunt. Eagles are best for that. Drawing enemy units in is the perfect role for reavers. Get close, shoot into them, flee and rally and repeat. Suck them in then flank with swords and lions.

Lorewise, if you aren’t using Banner of World Dragon, go Life. Great utility, keeps your elites alive, and Dwellers is one of the best spells out there, and the Throne of Vines protects you from miscasting on Dwellers. +4 Toughness is not too shabby either.

High Magic is awesome. No bad spells in there. Shadow is my third choice. Miasma is great utility. Scouts/Ambushers harassing your back lines? –D3 to their BS is awesome. Only problem I have with Shadow is the high cost (besides Miasma). That’s why I love High Magic. Great spells, and you are going to cast 4 or 5 spells a turn. And cheap spells that don’t make a difference if they’re dispelled is a perfect way to draw out Dispel Scroll. Not to mention Drain Magic and Flames of the Phoenix limiting their casting phases (they’re gonna have to dispel the RiP Flames).

wise.

[untimention]

Thanks for all the feedback people - it's been very valuable.

I have sat down again for version 1.3 of the list which is as follows:

Archmage (Level 4)- Silver Wand, Talisman of Preservation - 315pts He will take Shadow/life and sit with the Phoenix Guard

Noble BSB - Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix - 168pts He will sit with either the spearmen or with the White Lions (probs White Lions)

10 Archers - 110pts

53 Spearmen (Horde) - full command and banner of arcane protection - 527pts

7 Dragon Princes - Standard with flaming banner - 240pts To take down Dragon's/ Big Beats

15 Phoenix Guard - Standard, Champion - Banner of Scorcery and Foe Bane - The champion will accept challenges/ issue if this unit gets into combat but they are more protection (Guardians) for the Archmage and can hopefully Ward if he miscasts - 299pts

21 White Lions - Full command, standard of balance - 390pts

10 Swordmasters - 150pts

10 Swordmasters - 150pts

x3 Great Eagles - 150pts


Okay so the idea is:

Sorcerer with the phoenix guard who sit slightly back

Noble with White Lions

Spearmen in the middle with swordmasters sitting slightly back either side with a great eagle behind each of the sword master units

Dragon princes take one flank

White Lions either take a flank or sit in the middle

The final eagle will support the lions or be to take down warmachines

Archers would either sit towards the back or actually at the front to help re-direct/ stand and shoot

[Bigman]

These look like good lists, but just be aware that rumours put a new High Elf book to come out in early 2013. Paint your models as they will all still be there, but just don't get attached to magic item combos.

[untimention]

Thanks Bigman........ this is a very good point!

Things will change before the tournament if the rumours are true as the command models will change points wise........ well everything could and there could be some bigger better monsters to take but till that i can but use what i have........ new stuff is always cool though

[Valden]

I find the Lore of Light perfect for High Elves, Pha's protection gives our frail elves more survivability, speed of light ensures ASF rerolls, Net of Amyntok limits enemy movement at crucial moments, increasing our maneuverability edge, Banishment is good and cheap, but really comes into play vs undead armies, and Birona's timewarp is completely awesome, don't underestimate it cast on a unit of white lions! Suddenly you can march 20", charge 10"+2d6 and dish out +1 attack per model. Great for ending a mexican standoff and catching your enemy with his pants down by making an 'impossible' charge, or for augmenting an existing combat.

I have often been told that life is the best lore for High Elves, but I disagree. If you don't roll throne of vines, the +2 toughness spell and dwellers, you have invested heavy points on a level 4 that won't be doing much.

unit-wise, as a long time High Elf player I completely agree with the comment above, invest the bare minimum pointage in core and focus on special infantry. I lean away from swordmasters and towards white lions and PG, one dishes out heavy damage, the other is a good anvil. I'd only recommend swordmasters against armies with little/no shooting such as Vampires and Wocs.

A general tip is don't overspend on characters. I see a lot of army lists that are top heavy: they have a lot of pointage in characters carrying items that may well not get used. Make sure each character has a clear, important purpose, and before you add a character to your list, make sure you are convinced that those points would not be better spend on another unit.

I hope you enjoy playing as High Elves, I know I do!

[untimention]

Valden, very wise words!

I will look at light as a possible option - i take your words... i think i have looked at it before because of the +1 attack.

I completely agree about characters and core hence my lists takes the 50% limit on specials to the max pretty much and then min points on the core and characters making sur ei have a lev 4 and a BSB

[untimention]

2 games in and 0 wins (but i learnt a lot and the second game was close).

Game 1: High Elves Vs. Skaven - i got destroyed by warp lightning cannons and magic..... it wasn't a fun game and was very 1 sided.

Game 2: High Elves Vs. Dark Elves - second game was a lot closer, in the first i used Shadow and this time i went for Light which had some really good spells but looking back i think Shadow would of helped a little more. The two best performing units were the spears and phoenix guard. The dragon princes did okay for themselves as well. The Dark elf list was powerful with something like 80 shots being fired + bolt throwers, Hydra, Dragon and Manticore it was hard.

I think i may upgrade the spearmen to seaguard (i use the new scult seaguard as spearmen because they are gorgeous and rank up really easily). I think the ability to shoot, stand and shoot and then use spears is worth the 4pts.... i may drop a Dragon Prince or at a push 2, to bring the model count up a notch.

[Bigman]

Do not fret about losses. The two armies you have faced are considered to be two of the toughest to play.

Skaven have so many ways to trump low toughness armies, loads of good chaff, powerful warmachines and magic.

Dark elves have better shooting, comparable magic, and access to hydras.

Just learn and move on :-)

[Bigman]

I wouldn't bet on dragon princes taking down a beast. They need the charge to be effective at that, and if you fail, well then your str 3.

Drop them to five, use to guard a flank with an eagle. Use the extra points to increase the numbers in your Phoenix guard. Make it a true anvil.

I don't see any problems with the list, just be sure of your tactics and stick to them. I would like to see any unit stand up to a WL and SM combo charge.

That's the key for me EITH high elves. Get into a combat you can be sure of winning over 1 game turn. You want to be using high movement to single out units and decimating them.

Use eagles, magic and shooting to try and dictate the tempo / protect key units.

You probably know all this do apologies for coming off like I'm telling you what to do.

Have a game plan, and follow it through.

PS - if taking a horde of sea guard, make sure you focus fire one unit down. Use magic to help that.

If your opponent has to keep taking models off he will become unnerved and make a mistake.

[untimention]

Thanks - i appriciate any comment. I def need to learn more about tactics of playing with them but a lot of that will come through playing more games with them so i need to focus on that.

I did up-date the list last night with Seaguard.... it looks something like this:

Archmage (Level 4)- Silver Wand, Talisman of Preservation - 315pts He will take Shadow

Noble BSB - Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix - 168pts He will sit with either the spearmen

10 Archers - 110pts

39 Seaguard (Horde) - full command and banner of arcane protection

6 Dragon Princes - Standard with flaming banner
15 Phoenix Guard - Standard, Champion - Banner of Scorcery and Foe Bane - The champion will accept challenges/ issue if this unit gets into combat but they are more protection (Guardians) for the Archmage and can hopefully Ward if he miscasts - 299pts

21 White Lions - Full command, standard of balance - 390pts i have also added the gem that allows me x1 to role 3D6 for LD

10 Swordmasters - 150pts

Lion Chariot

x3 Great Eagles - 150pts



I will focus the Seaguard and archers on 1 unit at a time or two small units (things like x10 DE crossbow men) which helped destroy me last time. If the units im facing at T3 then i may split shooting but if t4 then all pile in!

I was trying to work out last night how to rank up the spearmen which i know somewhat comes down to whether they should be steadyfast or more attacks.... because i'm shadow i want more attacks and shooting!