The 13th Black Crusade results at the end

[Lord_Crull]

was re-reading the Eye of Terror newsletter and I kinda struck me, the results don't match up with the actual campaign.

I mean take this:

"Darkness has fallen across a hundred worlds, and for the defenders of the Cadian Gate, the pure light of day now seems but a distant memory. Though the forces of the Despoiler have been denied the ultimate prize of the fall of Cadia, Abaddon’s hordes have gained a foothold upon the worlds of Man, and none can see them being repelled for many years to come. Abaddon and his council of three have outmanoeuvred and out fought the forces of the Imperium at almost every turn. Corpses litter the battlefields in their millions, yet millions more still stand beleaguered, against a foe that knows no mercy and whose only goal is the utter destruction of all who stand before them.'

The Thirteenth Black Crusade has broken the Imperium’s hold upon the Cadian Gate- perhaps forever. The raging tempest of the Eye of Terror has surged forth, engulfing those worlds lost to Chaos. The Imperium no longer bars the gate to the Eye, only a small channel remains through which Imperial Navy vessels may pass to bring aid to the desperate forces upon Cadia.

At the close of the Thirteenth Black Crusade, Cadia still stands. But she stands alone, a failing beacon flickering against the encroaching night. Total war is come to Segmentum Obscurus, and all hopes of repelling the invaders are dashed. The Imperium must now consolidate its grip upon those worlds it still holds, and prepare to fight a war that will not end within the lifetime of any of its combatants. While Cadia still stands, humanity has reason to hope, but Abaddon the Despoiler has finally achieved what he has failed to do on twelve previous occasions, over ten thousand years- he has breached the Cadian Gate, and none can now hold back the inexorable tide of Chaos unleashed upon the Imperium of Man. "-

Except, as my research had later revealed, that's not quite what actually happened in the game results. The Imperium was winning pretty much completely on the space end of the spectrum and spacelanes around Cadia? Imperial. To such a degree that even the Tyranids had stopped trying to eat anything in the area by the end of the campaign. It's a lonely beacon of hope for Chaos in a universe which in actual reality went very much in the opposite direction.

As I understand it, as the time passed on, and as the results reflected it, GW has to make more and mroe excuses why Abbadon's forces even existed on the ground with Imperial space control and the Imperium started a serious counterattack. As I understood it, if the campaigh had been allowed to continue the Imperium would have recaptured pretty much everything.

So hence my confusion of how they wrote it. Am I right or did I get this wrong?

[x-esiv-4c]

GW being inconsistent? Who would have thought...

[Lord Damocles]

GW (Andy Chambers?) stated outright during the campaign that simply controlling space (any battles could be posted as being in space, not just BFG) wouldn't lead to victory. Iracundus gave a direct quote of the warning once (possibly in this thread).
It was along the lines of Chaos being able to use warp portals/summonings, and the Imperial Navy being unable to control all of the space lanes to the extent that nothing would be able to slip through.

The campaign continuing wouldn't have guaranteed an Imperial victory, since controlling space had no effect on controlling planets. The Imperial forces could have had 100% control of space, but Chaos could still have had 100% control of everything else.

The results of the campaign very much bore this out, with the Imperial forces having the advantage in space by the end of the campaign, but Chaos being the overall victors by having focussed on key planetside objectives (amoungst other factors like being better organised (irony!)).
With the fall of key locations such as Scarus and Agripinna to Disorder forces, I don't think it's too far off the mark to describe Cadia as standing [almost] alone.

[Lord_Crull]

The campaign continuing wouldn't have guaranteed an Imperial victory, since controlling space had no effect on controlling planets. The Imperial forces could have had 100% control of space, but Chaos could still have had 100% control of everything else.

What about orbital bombardment on those worlds?

GW (Andy Chambers?) stated outright during the campaign that simply controlling space (any battles could be posted as being in space, not just BFG) wouldn't lead to victory. Iracundus gave a direct quote of the warning once (possibly in this thread).
It was along the lines of Chaos being able to use warp portals/summonings, and the Imperial Navy being unable to control all of the space lanes to the extent that nothing would be able to slip through.

I apologize but I can't seem to find the quote.

[nagash66]

What about orbital bombardment on those worlds?

Dont mix up background with what happened. The 13th black crusade summer event was a 40k event, made to sell more 40k. Gw had been very clear that 40k games and thus planet-side control ( despite the space race being influenced by more then just BFG) would ultimately shape the winners and losers.

Thus chaos kinda won ( they still failed their primary objective, cadia) and the Imperium will have to slowly take back what it lost world by world using its clear space lanes.
But as the write up states it will take decades and billions of lives, and with the gate open chaos will be able to spill out into the wider segmentum.

[Lord Damocles]

I apologize but I can't seem to find the quote.

Hmm. It's mentioned, but the actual quote itself doesn't seem to be there. Perhaps it was a different thread, or somebody else

The fact of the matter is in 40K, holding deep space alone does not lead to victory. Blockades are not airtight and cannot prevent all reinforcements from reaching an enemy, and this is actually stated in the 13th Black Crusade book from Black Library. GW actually stated this during the campaign itself when Forces of Order players just kept piling results into the space warzones, telling the Forces of Order they had to take the initiative at the planetary level or fail. Guess what? They didn't and so the Forces of Disorder came away with the minor victory.

When Forces of Order players in denial tried at a convention to "convince" Andy Chambers why the Imperium "really" won the EoT (despite the verdict already being out by then) using that same argument, the reply was "daemons" and "warp gates". Also in the 13th Black Crusade, the Imperial characters say that controlling the deep space lanes alone is not enough and that no blockade is air tight. People keep making the mistaken assumption that somehow 40K space power is or should be supreme, when GW has already shown and ruled that in 40K the paradigm is that the ground is just as or more important.

What about orbital bombardment on those worlds?

I assumed by campaign you meant real life campaign (not doing very well here, am I..?)

Even in-universe though, naval power alone doesn't allow for the reliable taking of worlds - at least not without reducing them to blasted ruins first - otherwise half the scenarios in the background would never happen.
In the 40K-verse, even though you have a giant space cathedral with massive laser guns, you almost always find that you have to hit your opponant in the face with an axe, regardless.

[KingDeath]

The 13. Black Crusade backgroundbook mentions that the bulk of Quarren's fleet was destroyed while driving off the Blackstone Fortress ( p.87 ).
Apparently the chaos fleet is in an even worse shape.
The imperial counterattack might never fully manifest because the Cadian Gate is now engulfed by warpstorms (p.78), which hamper the arrival of reinforcements from
neighbouring sectors.

[Palvinore]

Copy of the official GW week 5 newsletter during the campaign, which was when the Forces of Order were busy getting defeated across the planetary warzones but still patting themselves on the back telling each other they were really winning the campaign if they had space warzones:

http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/eyeofter...sletter_5.html

Warnings
Ursarkar Creed has been hailed by many as the most able Imperial Guard commander since the legendary Lord Solar Macharius, yet many observers have noted that his sub-commanders have not proved themselves quite so capable. So sudden and mobile has the Despoiler's invasion proved that many commanders at a system and planetary level have simply been unable to coordinate their actions, and are reacting to the enemy's attacks rather than dictating their own terms of battle. Creed has issued stern orders to his subordinates- take the initiative at a planetary level, or fall. The choice is that simple.

Seems like it was an in-character way to tell the Forces of Order not to be complacent and ignore the planetary warzones.

Look beyond just the space warzone results and you will see that the planet warzones were devastated and in mostly Chaos hands especially considering they did not start at an even 50/50 split in the beginning of the campaign. They started mostly high in the Imperium's favor.

As for how the campaign would have turned out if it had continued, the thread has this to say:

At the end of the EoT campaign, the Forces of Order were still losing ground on the planetary and system warzones. The time limit for the campaign had run out but the Forces of Order were only slowing the damage and loss of Imperial Control, not stopping it. If the campaign had continued longer, it is highly likely the downward trend in results would have continued.

[Scribe of Khorne]

That this is still even debated (Chaos won, its real, deal with it. ) after all these years just shows how awesome an event it was. I know I enjoyed it. :]

[TheDungen]

Chaos won at the plant Cadia the imperium won in the space around it. Shame the part about vadia beign osts seems to have gotten lost since =(

I always loved that the new warcry for all survivng cadian regiments after the fall of Cadia was "Tomorrow on Cadia!"

Several other systems were in total anarchy at the end too, for an example the Scaelus system had been completly overran with orks. St. Johsmanes Hope had to be declared exterminatus and the enemy even had a foothold on Nemesis at one point. Oh and the planet killed blew up some planet i think.

[Grubnar]

The true victors of The Eye Of Terror campaign were da Orkz and the Tau. The Tau were able to expand with almost no oposition at all (the Imperium was too busy fighting chaos) and the Orkz pretty much stomped the Scarus sector (Skar-uz) flat!!

I remember reading an article, a report writen from the point of view of a Imperial strategic analyser, about how what started out as a small number of Ork warbands hired by chaos to distract the Imperium, grew to a Waaagh!! made up of tens of (mostly Blood Axe) warbands that were somehow better co-ordinated and far more efficient that both the forces of chaos and the imperium. The report ended on a dire warning that if this was anything more than a single incident it might be the first sing of certain doom for the Imperium (and the whole galaxy) if the Orkz were to achive even the most simple co-operation as a race.

[blackcherry]

The Orks really did do well out of the EoT campaign. Of all the Forces of Disorder results, Typhus getting a demon world outside of the eye would rank pretty highly I think.

[Idaan]

Didn't the Eldar rank second overall, but the only result that lasted was Eldrad's death, and all their victories like establishing a base on a Crone World in the Eye were retconned?

[Lord Damocles]

I don't think they've been retconned.

Not mentioned, perhaps (join the club), but not actively undone.

[nagash66]

Chaos won at the plant Cadia the imperium won in the space around it. Shame the part about vadia beign osts seems to have gotten lost since =(

I always loved that the new warcry for all survivng cadian regiments after the fall of Cadia was "Tomorrow on Cadia!"

I remember Cadia being mostly under Chaos control, but iirc there still was a small area that the imperial managed to hold.

[Lord Damocles]

Imperial control of Cadia went from 95% (Faithful) to 39.8% (Unreliable) over the course of the campaign.

[nagash66]

Imperial control of Cadia went from 95% (Faithful) to 39.8% (Unreliable) over the course of the campaign.

Cheers Lord Damocles, i was pretty sure the Imperium managed to hold onto the planet but some of the previous posts had me questioning my memory.

[TheDungen]

The eldar managed to save Altansar from the eye i think that counts

[blackcherry]

Thats right. In the current Eldar codex isn't a mention made of them?

[trigger]

GW messed there pants with the EoT campaign , they thought the forces of good would repel chaos but nope , the council of three it mentions in the report were 3 guy coordinating chaos all across the world via the Internet ( real life) were as the imperium didn't have any one step up to the plate.
Chaos were smashing the campaign up until the last week then the imperium pulled a rather suspect minor victory.
People wanted chaos to win to hopefully move on the 40k time line and GW wernt ready (if they ever will be) to move on. Hence why the next and final summer campaign was madusa IV or something.
I doubt GW will ever go down this path again , as much as it made money for them and sparked a new life into the hobby GW simply arnt ready for what we as the gamers want