Games Workshop are changing their trade terms

[punisher_1983]

so does this apply to ASDA and other big name retailers???
im sure White Dwarf comes out before it should in these places

[xxRavenxx]

So if I was an indie seller looking to stock GW, what motivation do I have to work with a company that seems to regard my existence as an abberation that must be punished?

As an existing retailer, I can honestly say I don't care. While I normally get a little more spoiler time on certain products, the contents of many things I have to preorder are a complete mystery to me till they arrive.

WOTC try to do so. (With MTG, they fail, admittedly, but they attempt to keep it a mystery till the day of its launch.) Most companies don't have too much info out on a lot of their board games.

Why shouldnt GW do the same? In honesty, it probably helps me out a lot. With no rumours, people have way less time to go order it online, so I get more passing trade from people who found out about the new models 5 days previously...

[Kijamon]

Why shouldnt GW do the same? In honesty, it probably helps me out a lot. With no rumours, people have way less time to go order it online, so I get more passing trade from people who found out about the new models 5 days previously...

Bingo. Why do people think releases are on a Saturday? If you order for release day - the Saturday. You are risking you'll get it on the Monday.

OH NO I CAN'T WAIT THAT LONG! I HAVE TO GO BUY IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!

Suits Games Workshop down to the ground. More money for them.

[Killgore]

To be fair Warseer expects pictures of the new models from a leaked WD a week and abit before the offical launch, I can see why GW would be angry that they see less then expected web traffic on their site on launch days, due to all of us having seen the pictures already.


I remember when the Tomb Kings got their own book in the early 00's my local at the time indy store sold a kid the huge Tomb Kings army deal the day it arrived from GW, a few days before offical release. The kid then assembled it and went to GW Southampton (or was it Portsmouth), which resulted in the indy store owner getting an irate phone call from the GW manager.

[Quark]

mikhaila from Dakka and another store manager both say they haven't gotten this.

[Grimtuff]

mikhaila from Dakka and another store manager both say they haven't gotten this.

And?

I still say this (if anything) is one of those internal GW staff emails, something which was not meant to be made public and/or told to Indies. We've all the seen the somewhat "inventive" names they have for the Internet community in some of their meetings and this is right up their alley IMO. Whilst I remain skeptical, GW's track record with things like this make it hardly surprising.

It may just be an area manager throwing their weight around. We're all aware of the cult of personality that runs through this company to its very core; with area managers acting like feudal lords at times (see "Virus bombing" stores). Whether they can actually act on the threats contained in the email will remain to be seen.

[Lord Cedric]

I wonder if this is brought up by GW as a partial result of that YouTube leak of the most recent White Dwarf Demons issue? I know it definately falls into this category.. but just wonder if this was the needle that popped the balloon, so to speak.

- Lord Cedric

[williamsond]

And?

I still say this (if anything) is one of those internal GW staff emails, something which was not meant to be made public and/or told to Indies. We've all the seen the somewhat "inventive" names they have for the Internet community in some of their meetings and this is right up their alley IMO. Whilst I remain skeptical, GW's track record with things like this make it hardly surprising.

It may just be an area manager throwing their weight around. We're all aware of the cult of personality that runs through this company to its very core; with area managers acting like feudal lords at times (see "Virus bombing" stores). Whether they can actually act on the threats contained in the email will remain to be seen.

It was a phone conversion, not an e-mail and comes straight from the guy who received it so can be verified as 100% legitimate he has no reason to lie and only mentioned it so people don't put stuff or links on his site. It's not them phoning him, but what he was told when he called them up today. I expect that it's what they are telling small retailers as they put their weekly orders in. As for folk jumping on the "it's not an official email" train because of... please read the tread before posting I never said it was an email.

[Grimtuff]

It was a phone conversion, not an e-mail and comes straight from the guy who received it so can be verified as 100% legitimate he has no reason to lie and only mentioned it so people don't put stuff or links on his site. It's not them phoning him, but what he was told when he called them up today. I expect that it's what they are telling small retailers as they put their weekly orders in. As for folk jumping on the "it's not an official email" train because of... please read the tread before posting I never said it was an email.

I suggest you read the other threads where this has been bandied about (one on Dakka is linked in this very thread) where it is mentioned it was an email. I got my wires crossed from reading this topic on multiple forums. Big whoop. No need to jump down my throat at it. Replace "email" with "phone call" in my post you quoted and everything I said is still relevant.

[williamsond]

Grim,

The intention was not to jump down you're throat good Sir and if that's what it came across as then my apologies. the above post was just meant to clear things up for the doubters.

(peace pipe passed)

[Grimtuff]

Grim,

The intention was not to jump down you're throat good Sir and if that's what it came across as then my apologies. the above post was just meant to clear things up for the doubters.

(peace pipe passed)

Right, so just for clarification, (as Dakka has shut their thread down as they believe it to be a hoax) this phone call involved someone from GW telling a Indie seller the new selling terms and threatening them with being unable to buy their new releases for 6 months? So, not 100% new GW policy (but definitely came from within GW) but more than likely a GW rep/area manager presumably throwing their weight around. Correct?

[williamsond]

All I got from the guy was in the original post and a few comments he made on his face book page later commenting on how they would use their legal department and UK Intellectuality property laws to enforce the action on any seller who posts stuff on his web site.

But yes to answer your question this came from within GW during his weekly order (which I believe is done directly with his retail rep at nottingham). I would imagine that it is official policy however as the date of the change seems too specific a thing to mention, added to that the guy has never posted leaked stuff on his site the only leaked stuff there tends to be stuff linked from sites such as this and BoLS, so they have no reason to even mention it to him out of the blue.

[rockethobbies]

Just had this post on my local retailers web site seems that GW are cracking down on discussion and potential leaking of new products.



A bit bonkers if you ask me, I would think all the leak products speculation helps to drive up sales.

I think the main point is they want everyone to start taking pre orders and to be selling the items at the same time, so it is fair for everyone.

Richard
Rocket Hobbies

[xxRavenxx]

Right, so just for clarification, (as Dakka has shut their thread down as they believe it to be a hoax) this phone call involved someone from GW telling a Indie seller the new selling terms and threatening them with being unable to buy their new releases for 6 months? So, not 100% new GW policy (but definitely came from within GW) but more than likely a GW rep/area manager presumably throwing their weight around. Correct?

For what help it is:

Two retailers in my "top secret retailers club" (yep, we have one of those. We're like the masons, except we don't do much...) have said they recieved this phonecall. I myself have not, nor have the other retailers who have commented.

I see no reason for the two in question to lie though. I suppose it takes time to ring round everyone.

[Inquisitor Engel]

Video game manufacturers don't forbid their stockists from talking about an upcoming new release, indeed they stock dummy copies, giant adverts and typically are quite rabid about taking pre-orders for an upcoming game.

I work on the corporate side of the the largest video game retailer in the world and actually, they do. Although game titles are set well in advance, titles and announcements almost ALWAYS embargoed.

Take Darksiders II, it's been hyped for MONTHS and Tuesday they announced the Crucible and Game+ modes with video, screenshots and a big announcement poster.
I watched that video last Friday. I've had posters in shipping sent to stores two months ago (print deadlines SUCK) with big "DO NOT OPEN UNTIL 8/7" stickers on them. Even gaming news sites get embargoes on full reviews and the dates for posting previews, to make sure pre-orders are affected either net-zero at worst or preferably positively.

The different is that GW has the embargo be final and is going Apple on it (a certain big-name publisher has done the same thing, which annoys me IMMENSELY from a planning perspective) and not giving anything beforehand. Video game publishers trickle things out and control the flow of information. GW does pretty much the same thing, but as their product cycle is different and relies on year-round buying and not certain seasons, they have to be a bit tighter.

They've learned a lot from working with THQ and Relic.

[Satan]

I work on the corporate side of the the largest video game retailer in the world and actually, they do. Although game titles are set well in advance, titles and announcements almost ALWAYS embargoed.

Take Darksiders II, it's been hyped for MONTHS and Tuesday they announced the Crucible and Game+ modes with video, screenshots and a big announcement poster.
I watched that video last Friday. I've had posters in shipping sent to stores two months ago (print deadlines SUCK) with big "DO NOT OPEN UNTIL 8/7" stickers on them. Even gaming news sites get embargoes on full reviews and the dates for posting previews, to make sure pre-orders are affected either net-zero at worst or preferably positively.

The different is that GW has the embargo be final and is going Apple on it (a certain big-name publisher has done the same thing, which annoys me IMMENSELY from a planning perspective) and not giving anything beforehand. Video game publishers trickle things out and control the flow of information. GW does pretty much the same thing, but as their product cycle is different and relies on year-round buying and not certain seasons, they have to be a bit tighter.

They've learned a lot from working with THQ and Relic.

Engel is of course entirely correct in this, but it's not entirely the same as video game titles are teased at by the publisher via trailers, developer diaries, etc - whereas GW have a total surprise blackout up until the day of release. In a sense you still know what's coming with digital games.

[williamsond]

I love the fact that in the same week that this happened we have had the contents of the new 40k boxset leaked and now today we have what looks to be all of the 40K releases for next summer onwards leaked. no wonder GW are threatening to hit people with legal sticks, I just think they are going about it in the wrong wayas normal.

[chilledenuff]

Can't see indies being responsible for these leaks, if I was GW i'd look closer to home.

[xxRavenxx]

For what help it is:

Two retailers in my "top secret retailers club" (yep, we have one of those. We're like the masons, except we don't do much...) have said they recieved this phonecall. I myself have not, nor have the other retailers who have commented.

I see no reason for the two in question to lie though. I suppose it takes time to ring round everyone.

And to add to this: I just had my call. The legal text I was asked to listen to specificly stated that the purpose of the change is that they want better control over people who break release dates. Strike 1: 6 months of not being allowed new models till 30 days after release. Strike 2: Account closed.

Seems fair enough to me. Keeping release dates is a big thing in the retail business. The league of gaming vendors (mysterious eh?) often chats about our requirements to keep to a set date, and people have often been reported to other companies and removed for violating it. GW are playing catchup on these policies, not inventing something new and sinister...

[Inquisitor Engel]

Engel is of course entirely correct in this, but it's not entirely the same as video game titles are teased at by the publisher via trailers, developer diaries, etc - whereas GW have a total surprise blackout up until the day of release. In a sense you still know what's coming with digital games.

Yeah, I think Forge World does an excellent job of using the video-game publisher model, with decent lead times (at least by GW standards) and good previews, enabling pre-orders at least a few weeks before. I think Black Library does an even better job, especially since the Horus Heresy series started with long lead times on books, posters and the like.

My original point was that it was crazy GW didn't already have SOME kind of non-disclosure agreement in place for its retailers.

All that said get why GW wants it to be very "Apple" and throw it out there. It works for Apple, it even worked for Bethesda and the PS3/PC release of Skyrim Dawnguard ("available.... now!" announced at QuakeCon last week) GW also wants to squeeze out those last drops from people buying what the need, rather than holding off.

That said, I kind of think they might be good with a three month lead, with controlled communication. I wouldn't mind not having a decent idea of what's going to come out a year from now if I had a 90% certainty of what's coming out three months from now.