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Thread: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

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    Chapter Master MvS's Avatar
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    New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    So we have what appears to be a massive leak in the rumours section, detailing all 40K releases from 2013 onwards. Even the legendary pie-man himself, Harry, thinks the leak looks plausible. So why mention it here?

    Well three things caught my eye in terms of 'new' or at least adapted Eldar imagery:

    Phoenix Lord Kyme'doc, The Planetwister - has this chap been mentioned before, even is passing?

    Phoenix Lord Nuadhu, The Fireheart - so... Naudhu's a Phoenix Lord now? Altered 'fluff' or a evolution of his character...?

    The Avatar of the Young King - this might just be a variant sculpt on the normal Avatar (which also makes an appearance on the release schedule as a new sculpt), but then again if all Avatars are awoken by the Young King, why have a variant model with this specific title? Does this mean anything new? Are there Young King Avatars and other Avatars?

    Anyway, there isn't really much for us to confirm at this very early stage even if this leak is real, but I just thought these were worth flagging up.
    Last edited by MvS; 10-08-2012 at 11:59.
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Well, Nuadhu could be a retcon or it could establish something long speculated about that it is possible to become a Phoenix Lord even in the 41st millennium. So Nuadhu achieves great things as a Saim Hann chieftain, then becomes a Phoenix Lord starting a new Aspect etc. I would speculate he is the PL of the Shining Spears.

    Kyme'doc is completely new as far as I'm aware. Perhaps PL of the Warp Spiders?

    The only thing I can think of that makes sense is that it is the Young King before becoming a proper Avatar. Interesting to see what happens there.
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  3. #3

    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    There was an earlier rumor of a much smaller Avatar model being made, perhaps this is the Avatar of the Young King.

    I suspect the AYK (you heard it here first) will be able to be accompanied to battle by the new Xentarch models, sort of the aspect warrior version of the Seer Council
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Could be that the Nuada fireheart kit is a custom Vyper ("chariot" under 6th ed terms) that makes either the old character or a new Phoenix Lord on a similar vehicle?`

    GW is certainly aiming to make each boxed set count, squeezing out more list entries per physical store shelf-space.

    Would be interesting to see the character evolve though, maybe something like being strong enough to dominate the conglomerate identity of a found Phoenix Lord suit, rather than being absorbed and losing his personality in favour of the original owner.

  5. #5

    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    It would have to be the same character, the name is the same, Nuadhu Fireheart. He just seems to have become a Phoenix Lord. Whether this will be after everything else he did or a retcon remains to be seen.
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    It would have to be the same character, the name is the same, Nuadhu Fireheart. He just seems to have become a Phoenix Lord. Whether this will be after everything else he did or a retcon remains to be seen.
    Well, with the exception of Karandras, phoenix lords are supposed to be the founders of their aspect, so that mean they are the first of their "aspect" (or they are the Aspect), that will imply a retcon since in the old fluff and rules there is nothing suggesting that Nuadhu was a shining spear.
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    True enough, but unless he is the Phoenix Lord of the Sky Chariots (assuming they are an Aspect not merely a new unit type) it remains to be seen what else he could be the PL of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jes Goodwin
    They breed more anyway, its a pretty rough place, Commoragh, there's a lot of it going off.

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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    Well, Nuadhu could be a retcon or it could establish something long speculated about that it is possible to become a Phoenix Lord even in the 41st millennium.
    Quote Originally Posted by Solonor View Post
    Well, with the exception of Karandras, phoenix lords are supposed to be the founders of their aspect, so that mean they are the first of their "aspect" (or they are the Aspect), that will imply a retcon since in the old fluff and rules there is nothing suggesting that Nuadhu was a shining spear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Index Xenos - Eldar - the Warrior Aspect
    THE PHOENIX LORDS
    A few of the most ancient Exarchs have no shrines and no craftworld to call their home. They wander from world to world, instinctively driven by war, attracted by places of great danger and need. These Exarchs are known as the Phoenix Lords and they are great heroes amongst the Eldar race. During moments of desperation they appear, sometimes just one but often several depending upon the perils faced. Following in the path of the Bloody-handed God, their names are well known throughout the craftworlds, and their deeds form part of the legends of the Eldar.
    No one knows exactly how many Phoenix Lords there are, for some are seen but rarely, while others disappear for millennia only to reappear suddenly and unexpectedly. Some have undoubtedly perished far away, their suits lying upon some hostile world awaiting discovery by some predestined Eldar warrior doomed to don the armour and become the ancient hero for another cycle of his existence.
    Some of the Phoenix Lords are as old as the Fall. They were heroes during the cataclysm, and were the first to bear the spirit stones of the Warrior Aspects. Perhaps they never reached the craftworlds and so never founded their own shrine as others did, or maybe their shrines have since been destroyed along with their craftworlds. Whatever their past, they are the most fearsome of all Exarchs, and the most powerful warriors of all the Eldar.
    Emphasis mine.
    Last edited by Idaan; 10-08-2012 at 14:18.
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Reading it again, I thnk it is a case of unfortunate formatting of the title for the entry:

    208283411250206 Eldar Phoenix Lord Nuadhu, The Fireheart / Alean Vyper PLa12Len_C02cc

    So, Nuadhu, The Fireheart, and the alternate build of a (new) Phoenix Lord named "Alean". Standing by my guess that Nuadhu is not becoming a Phoenix Lord himself...

    And the next obvious guess is that this guy is likely to be the Shining Spear Phoenix Lord, seems likely they would plug an old gap of a jetbiker Aspect without a founder in the lists, and then the "Planetwister" there doing the same for Warp spiders.
    Last edited by Scalebug; 10-08-2012 at 14:24.

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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    What's your point? Nuadhu has a Craftworld and a home, givne that Saim Hann is relatively populous and prosperous why wouldn't there be shrines? As he was a regular Eldar within living memory he would have inspired imitators which is what an Aspect is about. The statement that some Phoenix Lords are as old as the Fall isn't exactly an explicit statement that Phoenix Lords can still be forged in the 'current' era. Just that they vary in age. My point was that they may finally be fleshing some of this stuff out with Nuadhu being upgraded to PL status.

    Alean is the name of Nuadhus vyper which in turn is named after the mount Kaela Mensha Khaine rode into battle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jes Goodwin
    They breed more anyway, its a pretty rough place, Commoragh, there's a lot of it going off.

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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    @Idaan

    If all phoenix lords don't have shrines and craftworlds to call home then it wouldn't be possible for Nuadhu to be a phoenix lord, unless the next codex features the destruction of Saim-hann
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    Kyme'doc is completely new as far as I'm aware. Perhaps PL of the Warp Spiders?
    Given his/her title, that's almost a certainty. Looking forward to new WS Sculpts to be honest. The current ones are... showing their age.

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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Alean was Nuadhu's chariot Vyper in 3e, named after the legendary steed of Khaine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebore View Post
    I've wanted to do a diorama of some space marines holding a step ladder Iwojima style whilst Marneus Calgar is on the top Punching the Forgeworld avatar in the face.

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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Ah, Ok, reading it now... Yeah, though it could be that "Alean Vyper" goes from being an unique vehicle to a type of chariot Vyper, and then a Phoenix Lord of hte Shining spears to go in that kit.

    It would actually be going back to 2nd ed, where you could buy a Vyper as a transport for a character, exchanging the main gun for a fighting platform. The option never carried over once they made an actual model towards the end of 2nd Ed, and the physical kit didn't include it.

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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scalebug View Post
    Reading it again, I thnk it is a case of unfortunate formatting of the title for the entry:

    208283411250206 Eldar Phoenix Lord Nuadhu, The Fireheart / Alean Vyper PLa12Len_C02cc

    So, Nuadhu, The Fireheart, and the alternate build of a (new) Phoenix Lord named "Alean". Standing by my guess that Nuadhu is not becoming a Phoenix Lord himself...

    And the next obvious guess is that this guy is likely to be the Shining Spear Phoenix Lord, seems likely they would plug an old gap of a jetbiker Aspect without a founder in the lists, and then the "Planetwister" there doing the same for Warp spiders.
    From what i get from the rumours, Shining spears will become a new unit type "(sky)chariot" and Nuadhu will be their PL with a named "(sky)chariot)" honouring the steed Khaine used in battle.

    Regarding the new PL, if he is the warp spider PL, i wonder what his nickname "Planetwister" means...humm
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solonor View Post
    @Idaan

    If all phoenix lords don't have shrines and craftworlds to call home then it wouldn't be possible for Nuadhu to be a phoenix lord, unless the next codex features the destruction of Saim-hann
    He doesn't need to have his Shrine destroyed. Maybe he never founded one(as the quote later implies), or it was abandoned (as in PotW, though it was caused by the Exarch suit itself being left dormant).

    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    What's your point? (...). The statement that some Phoenix Lords are as old as the Fall isn't exactly an explicit statement that Phoenix Lords can still be forged in the 'current' era. Just that they vary in age. My point was that they may finally be fleshing some of this stuff out with Nuadhu being upgraded to PL status.
    An ancient Exarch with enough power accumulated in his suit could have his Shrine destroyed/abandoned in 999.M41, thus becoming a Phoenix Lord. The part about being PLs being ancient Exarchs refers to the suit and is separate from how long they've been Phoenix Lords.

    Indeed, an old Citadel Journal presents us with a ready example of an Exarch who's the sole practitioner of his Aspect, with some ties to Saim-hann no less:
    Yrrthilien Mournsong
    from an early age, Yrrthilien showed a budding talent for the art of music.On many occasions the youth would sit in the ancient halls of his home, the craftworld of Muirgaythh, playing songs of great passion and emotion to a captive audience.

    As Yrrthilien grew older his talent blossomed as the greatest poets and songwrites in the eldar civilisation came to perform along side him teaching him all that they themselves had learnt from their ancestors. Yrrthilien was worshipped as one of the greatest musicians ever to have lived, but deep inside he was unhappy. The pround young eldar had played his name into history of his
    people with his rhyme and verse but he longed to takehis music to those who would otherwise never hear its like. he wanted to experience the world beyond his ancestral home and drink from its overflowing cup of advanture. on a bright day in the summer cycle ofthe craftworld,Yrrthilien packed a few possessions of sentimental value and left his home.he had taken upon himself the role of a scout, a role that would give him the adventure he craved for, sending himon a journey that would take him to the furthest reaches of the galaxy.

    For a number of years Yrrthilien travelled throughout the galaxy, struck with an irresistible
    wanderlust that took him to many strange worlds where he sang great and powerful songs to their inhabitants,learning their tongues and dialects. all the while he would write songs and poems of his advantures to take back to his home. Yrrthilien was truly happy.

    Eventually the adventurous bounty for which he had searched lost its hold on Yrrthilien and he began to feel the pangs of loneliness,he longed for the familiar halls and passages of his home and sound of sweet music flowing throughout. turning his small scout ship into the sloar winds, he began the long journey back to muirgaythh.After what seemed like an eternity, muirgaythh was in sigh, but why did it seem so still and lifeless and what of the hero's welcome he had expected?
    No welcome came as he neared his home and nor would it, for reasons that became clear as
    Yrrthilien stepped from his ship into the deserted landing bay.

    Looking about him, Yrrthilien saw no sign of life, or any evidence that it had existed for along time.
    As he moved from the landing bay into the corridor beyond a look of horror spread across his face. On the elaborately tiled floor lay the body of an eldar Guardian, all broken and bloody, his armour ripped open and scattered about as he looked up from the body he caught sight of another and yet another, all robbed of the gift of life and left bleeding on the floor.

    Yrrthilien felf a knot in his stomach and tears come to his eyes but he did not cry, intead he began to sing. he sang as he yanked himself away from the grim signs of his dead kinsmen. he walked alone through the ancient halls and forest domes. he sang when he found no signs of life in the once bustling market plaza. he sang when he saw the symbol of the dread forces of slaanesh scrawled in blood on the shattered remain of a once great wraithguard. for days on end he wandered through the passages and corridors, all the time singing the song that filled his mind.
    the words of a well written verse had always brought cheer to him but now he sang only a song of death and destruction and the demise of his people.

    the once joyful youth turned from the scenes of death and began to walk back along the silent corridors to his ship it was then that he caught sight of a faint glow out of the corner of his eye. The glow was coming from was coming from beyond the smashed portal of the done of crystal seers. Yrrthilien moved cautiously towards the source of the light,on closer inspection he was amazed to find an unbroken waystone attached to an omate and ancient armoured suit and beside it a long curved sabre. Yrrthilien recognised these ancient artifacts as those used by his father and his father's father in times of dire circumstance and for a second he almost felt a feeling of joy in his heart. could it be true? that the foul hordes of chaos had overlooked these artifacts or were they indeed a gift from the dead? Yrrthilien carefully put on the ancient armour and held the helm before him placing it over his head a scream of ancient eldritch power filled the craftworld and the boy who was once Yrrthilien became merged with the memories of his ancesters, he was no longer just Yrrthilien, he was Yrrthilien Mournsong of muirgaythh lost.

    With all that had happened,Yrrthilien wanted nothing more than to join his people in deaths embrace, but he was last of his kind and when he was gone there would be no trace of his proud kin,no stories,no hero's songs. he vowed that he would fight in the name of muirgaythh until a day when he could join them in honourable death. he would write great songs and tales about his kin
    and sing their tale in battle, and when he,the last of his people was gone none would write great songs and tales about his kin and sing their tale in battle, and when he, the last of his people was gone none would forget the tragedy of muirgathh.

    The once joyous bard left his home, turning his back on all that he remembered.All the joyful songs of his youth were now lost to him, never to return. with only the words of that death song echoing in his mind, Yrrthilien set out to find a heroic end.
    such is the way of the song when the musicends, the song will cease to be.
    Yrrthilien Mournsong
    The later life of Yrrthilien mournsong is a tragedy by nature,spent travelling around the galaxy in search of an honourable death in battle. he will offer his services as a warrior to any eldar commander worthy of his attention. Yrrthilien can often be seen speeding into battleon his customised jetbike singing his song of doom through a specially made sound amplification system. this system is based on the psycho- amplifying masks used by the warriors of the howling
    banshee aspect.

    Yrrthilien is so devoured by his grief and rage that he cannot leave the warrior path, which make,
    to all intents and purposes, an exarch of his own personal warrior aspect. this is a path that he has followed for many a year and will probably never reach the end.

    over the years Yrrthilien has been taught much in the art of warfare by some of the greatest eldar
    leaders,one being Tathuanne stormreaver of the saim hann wild riders, who gave Yrrthilien the customised jetbike that he now rides into battle. this, however does nothing to ease his devil-may-care attitude towards life.
    The Moon sabre of Thilienn

    The moon sabre is the name of the power sword that was once used by Yrrthilien's father in the time he spent as a guardian, it was one of two artifacts that Yrrthilien managed to save from his home after the onslaught of slaanesh. the sword itself has a long heavy, curved blade blade with a single cutting edge, which many warriors would find difficult to use. however, Yrrthilien counters this with superb strength and dexterity, swinging the curved blade in a complex pattern as he screams into battle on his jetbike.

    Ancestral Armour
    The second of two items salvaged from Yrrthilien's home is a suit of ancient and ornate armour once worn by his father and his father's father. Yrrthilien sees this item as a gift from the dead and always wears it in battle, letting the memories of his ancestors guide his actions.

    The Screaming Gale

    The screaming gale is the name Yrrthilien gives to the jetbike he so often rides into battle instead of the standed shuriken catapults, the gale has a complex array of sound resonation crystals fitted into the front faring and rear pods of the bike,these pods amplify the soundof Yrrthiliens already powerful voice to the point of being ultra-sonic and force it through a sound channelling device at the chosen target, inflicting damage to the nervous system causing near paralysis or painful, shuddering death.

    stats Yrrthilien M5 WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W3 I9 A2 LD 10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebore View Post
    I've wanted to do a diorama of some space marines holding a step ladder Iwojima style whilst Marneus Calgar is on the top Punching the Forgeworld avatar in the face.

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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    Not all Avatars are created by a court of the young king sacrificing an Exarch to them. There is also the Avatar that is summoned from the formation of the Phoenix Court. The most powerful Phoenix Lords come together, lay their arcane weapons over one of the spirit stones in the armour of the Avatar, and then, with an Eldritch spell, each Phoenix Lord infuses the living statue with the energy of one of the Exarch souls forming their own consiousness.

    The weaker avatars (the ones created by the Court of the Young King) are the ones we see in the Eldar Codex. The more powerful Avatars (the ones created by the Phoenix Court) are the ones we see in Apocalypse.

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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    It might also be an Avatar like the Harlequin Avatar (re-named to Troupe Master to avoid confusion). Might just be the Young King beofre being Avatarised.
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    The Avatar of the Young King, could also not be strictly the Avatar himself, but rather an expansion on the military role of the Young King. Say if the threat isn't dire enough to actually awaken the Avatar the Young King may take to battle himself instead, perhaps even using some funky powers gained from some sort of symbiosis with the Avatar.
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    Re: New Phoenix Lords & variant Avatars...?

    The Avatar of the Young King is burning. I doubt any normal Eldar would be very comfortable with such a state. So more reasonably he is not the simple guy before awakening the Avatar.
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