Hell Heart vs. Teclis, Throne of Vines & Slaan's?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all,

I was wondering how the Hell Heart (Ogre Item) works against the current ways people avoid miscasts?

[Malorian]

It makes them miscast and then Teclis can ignore it if it's the first one, and the slaan ignores it on a 2+ if ToV is up.

[Glen_Savet]

Slaan could also bounce it on a 2+, if he's got the right item.

[10_minute_pie]

Actually, Hell Heart simply forces enemy Wizards to roll on the Miscast Table, it does not cause them to miscast. As such, many would argue that Teclis, Cupped Hands and Throne of Vines cannot be used to "ignore the miscast." Earthing Rod (and I believe Soul Of Stone, don't have the exact wording) however can be used to reroll the result on the table.

[Lord Inquisitor]

It needs a FAQ.

The intent seems quite likely that there is no functional difference between a miscast, the wizard miscasting and a roll on the miscast table but some will argue the minute differences in wording make a difference.

(Note the hell heart itself uses "roll on the table" and "miscast" interchangeably.)

[Blkc57]

I guess the important part of the item description is the single line:

"Special rules or magic items that affect a normal miscast roll can be used against miscasts caused by the Hellheart."

I always see people try to talk about "the Miscast table" and how the Hellheart doesn't cause a miscast, when it fact the relevant section of the item description only specifies things that "affect a normal miscast roll" and the most important part "MISCASTS CAUSED BY THE HELLHEART", so the Hellheart does in fact cause a miscast. One could argue that Teclis's ability, Throne of Vines, and Cupped hands affect the normal miscast roll.....in that you never take one. As Lord Inquisitor so wisely pointed out even the Hell Heart description itself uses the words "miscast" and "miscast roll" interchangeably.

[Copenhagan]

Well the rules for the item say that all items that can be used to prevent a miscast can be used against this item.

[Fubar]

Well the rules for the item say that all items that can be used to prevent a miscast can be used against this item.

Pretty sure you just made that up, however it does state that items that can affect a miscast roll can be used, so RAW says things to change the roll(infernal puppet), reroll it(earthing rod) will defiantly work, the grey area exists in things like throne of vines, teclis etc that don't affect the roll as such, but ignore the miscast altogether. Another example of ****** rule writing by GW, they seriously need to pull their fingers out and crack on with decent FAQ's tbh.

[Blkc57]

Pretty sure you just made that up.

If you read it as some read it, It can technically say that in the FAQ. The big hang up seems to be that some people read the part with a miscast roll as not a miscast, where GW in the very FAQ seems to disagree and read "a miscast roll" and the word "miscast" interchangably as was pointed out by Inquisitor. I see where you are coming from Fubar, but I also see where the other side is coming from. To me it just seems that RAW fails to help as a miscast is never clearly defined, forcing someone to create a RAI to fill in the obvious blank. It does need a more clear FAQ though everyone agrees on that, but seeing as how that most likely won't ever happen (so much for constant and reliable updates, thanks GW!) you have to make the best of what we currently have. I'm more annoyed with the fact that the VC and Empire need an FAQ and probably won't get one for at least 3 more months.