1k / 2k league - Lizardmen

[Moss]

Fantasy Army: Lizardmen

I have an upcoming league in which my opponents are going to be all three varieties of Elves, and Vampire Counts. We are each playing a 1000pt game and a 2000pt game. Everything in the 1000pt army has to be included in the 2000pt army (you can add models/magic items but may not subtract them from a given unit). There is also a third game against each opponent in which we are going to play with our opponent’s 2000pt list (for example, I’ll be using Vampire Counts against my Lizardmen for a game). I’d like some feedback, if you can spare it.

1000pts

Saurus Scar-Vet
LA, shield, CO, Dawn Stone, Sword of Striking, Dragonhelm

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers

18 Saurus Warriors
Full command

Salamander Hunting Pack
Extra handler

Salamander Hunting Pack
Extra handler

6 Chameleon Skinks

3 Terradon Riders

____________________________________

2000pts – Everything above, plus the following:

Slann Mage Priest
BSB, Focus of Mystery, Focused Rumination, Becalming Cogitation, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, Ironcurse Icon

18 Temple Guard
Full command

Skink Priest
Dispel Scroll

6 Chameleon Skinks

6 Chameleon Skinks

I don’t have any more Skinks, so I have to use at least one unit of Saurus.
I was thinking of sneaking in a Stegadon for the 1000pt game (in lieu of the Saurus), but I don’t know how to make him fit in the 2000pt game.
I’m thinking I’ll take Lore of Light, but I’m still undecided. I just beat VC with Lore of Death, so I don’t think I’ll try that again.
I also wanted to try dropping the TG since in those numbers they feel like just an expensive bunker, but don’t know what I’d do with the points. And then do I put the Slann with the Saurus? I feel like there’s too much shooting (normal and magical) to run him alone.

I would appreciate some help thinking/talking this out. I don’t like to lose. Thanks!

[Moss]

So, does a stegadon have a place in that 2000pt list? Does it even have a place in the 1000pt list?

[ShadyMonkie]

May i suggest running Slann solo? By removing the TG from the list you open up 323 pts. with that you could get any type of stegadon and give extra upgrade to slann as well.
This is only my personal preference, for i deem TG bit underwhelming for their points.

For lower points, I sorta squeeze in a stegadon in 1.5k list but haven't tried it on 1k list yet.

[Moss]

Yeah, with those points I can get an ancient stegadon and make the Slann immune to mundane weapons. Or is Divine Plaque of Protection a better choice?

[ShadyMonkie]

I would go with Divine Plaque and get disciplines that will help me against/with my magic.
In other words, your current slann listed on 2k list with Plaque of Divine Protection and minus iron cursed icon. He becomes 25pts higher but taking out TG will more than make up for it.

[immortal git]

stegadons work in 1k, my cousen runs 2 in a 1k all skink list he uses. it dominates. Uses one in 500 point games too, but thats just rude in my opinion

[MOMUS]

I would suggest taking some points off the slann, its a waste. At this low points level you already have the best most points effective caster in the game. The extra brass knobs are not needed. Also the first list read very much like a skirmisher list but has a saurus unit in it, which seems out of place. Why not use the 1000pts as a pure skirmisher list and then add the slann and blocks for the bigger list, giving a varied playstyle without sacrificing effectiveness.

I wouldnt bother with the TG, what lore are you using?

[Moss]

Yeah, I'm starting to like the idea of a total skirmishing list for 1000pts. Like I said, I'm out of skinks, but I'll try to play with points and get a steg in there. Either way, the saurus are probably out.

Not sure on which lore to take at 2k. If I drop the TGs, do I still take light? Seems like a waste of buffs if the only infantry I have is the single saurus unit. And what do you suggest I drop on the slann? Mystery? My buddies just figured out the whole "throw six dice at a game-breaking spell" thing, so that is why I took cogitation.

[MOMUS]

At 1000pts i have been using this:

Scar vet, cold one, LA, charmed shield, dawnstone, burning blade

10 cohort skinks

10 skirmishers
10 skirmishers
10 skirmishers

8 camo skinks
8 camo skinks

3 terradons
3 terradons

2 salamanders

1 razordon

You could then in the next 1000pts have your slann and blocks/steg. I would suggest dropping the TG in favour of taking a bigger saurus block, light would be good buffing them. If i was running the slann i would probably take cogitation and rumination, if you are running rumination and light you will be rolling few dice for alot of spells most phases. This means cupped hands is not a great choice, loremaster is nice but if you are wanting to really squeeze the points take the extra spell plaque.

By taking a skirmisher army you are not only taking a form of point denial you are also lessening the effect of those 'game breaking spells'.

[-Totenkopf-]

shadow would become the better lore.. The debuffs will make your shooting phase so much more effective and if one of you skink units happen to get into combat, they will at least have a sporting chance.. It also increases the effectiveness of your salamanders by a wide margin.. Life is a popular lore, I am yet to use it though as it does not really suit my style of play which is odd because I play a lot of TK as well and m used to raising units.
I personally like small TG units. They hit very hard and are a big deterrent to any harassing units looking to pop you slaan. That being said, if you run him solo, ethereal is the way to go, just remember though he can still be broken through static rez and run down.. In smaller games, a free power dice and and deleting all 6's from your enemy, is HUGE... much more important than loremaster.. Loremaster is also not as important if you don't take light..
The cowboy vet really doesn't need the magic sword.. I'd give him a GW and the venom of the firefly... you will be facing VC and he may need the extra hitting power to pop some armoured knights.

If you strip the Scarvet of magic items I think you can squeeze him and an EOTG with scroll at 2000 pts...

[Moss]

So, I think I'm going to go with something similar to what MOMUS suggested at 1000pts.

Scar Vet

3 Terradon Riders
3 Terradon Riders

10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers

6 Chamelon Skinks
6 Chamelon Skinks

2 Salamanders
1 Salamander

In 2000pts, I will add:

Slann: BSB, Mystery, Rumination, Cogitation, Higher State, Dispel Scroll

24 Saurus
18 Saurus

I'll take Light to go with the two blocks of Saurus. I just love that every spell in the lore is useful. The reason I rarely take the Slann by himself is that I don't feel that I even saved very many points by dropping the TG. I dropped Cupped Hands, as well as the TG and priest (the scroll got transferred to the Slann since his arcane slot was opened). I know the consensus is that I should be making the Slann cheaper, but I have this problem where I try to save points by having the Slann by himself, but ultimately make him more expensive by buying him extra protection (Higher State). Also, I just seem to use every spell in the Lore of Light (like, every phase and in every game). That makes Rumination and Mystery automatic. The only discipline that doesn't seem automatic to me is Cogitation, but as Totenkopf said, deleting all 6s from the enemy is huge (especially when it's against opponents who rely on their magic as much as I do).

So I guess my questions now become:
1) I followed suggestions about dropping the TG, but I don't feel like the list is any better. Am I doing it wrong?
2) If I did drop Becalming Cogitation, what would I do with the extra 50pts?

I decided that if I can't make room for an ancient steg that I just won't take one. And if I made the vet naked in 2k, he would have to be naked in 1k; I don't think I'll do that because I really like how unkillable he can be at that level.

[MOMUS]

Too little saurus, you will need to scrimp more on the slann. Loremaster is great but like i said taking the extra spell plaque and rolling five dice is going to mean you will be picking your spells anyway alot of the time. I just found my 2000pt skirmisher list which looks like this:

2000pts:

Light slann BSB, +1PD, Soul of stone, plaque of extra spell

Scar vet, cold one, LA, charmed shield, dawnstone, burning blade

Scar vet, cold one, LA, GW, dragonhelm, amulet of Itzl, firefly venom

Priest, cube of darkness

6X10 skirmisher skinks

2X10 cohort skinks (with musicians)

2X3 terradons

2X5 camo skinks

salamander

2 salamander

1 razordon

1 razordon

[Panfuricus]

I'd strongly suggest stegadons as well. I've never seen them do bad, and I have a lot of friends who swear by them. I always liked lore of heavens.

[Moss]

First off, I appreciate all of the feedback. Our VC player and I just entered into a gentleman's agreement. He will not take Red Fury on his lord, and he'll cap his GG unit at 24. Also, he won't give them the +1 to hit banner. In exchange, I am capped at three units of skink skirmishers and two salamanders. That means I'm back to the drawing board, and it seems that things are going to be a little more on the "fun" side. Thanks for thinking through it with me!

[MOMUS]

First off, I appreciate all of the feedback. Our VC player and I just entered into a gentleman's agreement. He will not take Red Fury on his lord, and he'll cap his GG unit at 24. Also, he won't give them the +1 to hit banner. In exchange, I am capped at three units of skink skirmishers and two salamanders. That means I'm back to the drawing board, and it seems that things are going to be a little more on the "fun" side. Thanks for thinking through it with me!

Thats not really an agreement, thats the VC player taking you for a ride. Red fury and a bigger GG unit that will never make it into combat (if you play your cards right) in exchange for two of your best units?

[Moss]

Games have started to devolve into taking unbeatable units and then avoiding such units the opponent might bring. This is an attempt to get back to what drew us to the game in the first place, which is well-balanced, nice looking armies.

This league was initially very competetive in nature, but then we all started to realize that we would have to play 15 games with these lists. We all miss using our favorite units, and then getting into combat with those units.

It's like when I buy a new video game and love it at first. But then, I figure out the "system," and realize that there is a way to beat it in an "optimal" way (by maximizing character builds in an RPG or build orders in RTS games) and the game stops being fun and starts being all about winning. That's sort of what 8th edition has become for me. We're trying to get back to the fun.