Most ridiculous thing from black library

[grumbaki]

I'm a fan of black library. The books may all have an obligatory battle scene, even if one isn't needed, but they are good reads. Warhammer short stories and novels have created gems such as 'who mourns a necromancer' and the ambassador books. But I think we all have to admit that there have been some...stretching, of fluff. So, what do you think the most egregious example is? Oh, and by the way, if you don't like spoilers, you are probably in the wrong thread.


I'd vote for Orc Slayer. In it, there is an ancient evil that sold it's soul to chaos before the time of the old ones that is sleeping under Karak Hirn. It possesses all of the dwarfs in the hold, leading to them all dying. Now, for anyone who follows the fluff, this means that every man, woman and child in the hold died. Seeing as how 75% of all dwarf children are male, losing any woman is a blow to the race. Losing everyone in the hold? It pretty much means that the hold is dead, and there just aren't enough dwarfs around to properly recolonize it. So, in making up a monster (whose race/powers are never really explained), Nathan Long managed to (probably inadverntely) destroy one of the setting's major cities by dealing a blow that it is impossible to recover from.

So, what do you think is the most ridiculous thing from black library?

[Drasanil]

To add to your point, orclsyar is pretty dim in that Grimnir's Axe, one of the most potent weapons ever forged, can only make a paper thin dent in the skin of any one who is wearing one of those collars. I'm sorry but what!? Not only is this some never heard of race, that will likely never get mentioned again, but it's capable of handing out magic invulnerability collars that are proof against one of the mightiest weapons forged.

One of my own personal bugbears is the Malus Darkblade series, aside from ignoring established and central fluff willy-nilly... it feels like a bad attempt to port over drow into WFB. Malus is a short sighted idiotic Starscream wannabe with no actual ability, thought or charisma, yet he manages to not only inspire loyalty but get away with randomly murdering or betraying people on the flimsiest of excuses. I know dark elves are supposed to be evil, but they're also supposed to be thoughtful, intelligent and credible and Malus' random over the top moustache twirling ways just don't cut it.

[grumbaki]

Well, to derail my own topic, what makes you think that dark elves are thoughtful, intelligent or credible? They suffer from army wide hatred of everything! That's not thoughtful, that's just childish. Intelligent? We are talking about a race which goes to great lengths to raid around the world for slaves, and then they wear them out so fast through sacrifice/torture/good times that they need to immediately hop back on a boat to get a new lot. I don't call that intelligent, I call it wasteful. And credible? Gav went out of his way to make sure they aren't credible, because covering them in spikes and wearing black mascara just wasn't enough to prove to everyone that they are eeeeevvvviiiiillll!!!!

Eh, sorry. Seems like I went on a rant there. But seriously, I agree with you on both points. I read the first Malus novel and gave up on the series. I don't regret it.

[Drasanil]

Malus isn't a dark elf, he's the world's prettiest skaven and I sincerely hope they put him in the right army book next time around!

As for the rant part... it seems to be an overall clash between what dark elves are supposed to be and GW needing to colour-code everything so that there's no mistake as to who is 'good' and who is 'bad'.

[stormblade]

Yeah Orcslayer was bad the thing i disliked the most about it were boring orcs.

[Verm1s]

Drasanil: the original comic is better. That's where the 'Dan Abnett' bit from 'Dan Abnett and Mike Lee' comes from. I couldn't promise that Darkblade's a much more three-dimensional character in that format (not in the first volume anyway), but at least the pictures are pretty. And no-one shrugs like they're dying of Parkinsons.

Ridiculous things... I dunno if it stretches any canon, but I read the first couple of chapters of A Murder in Marienburg, threw it against the wall, and never read it again. Like David Bishop had a bet to cram in all the laziest cliches he could think of - a grim antihero who's an unbeatable fighter with a mysterious past; the only honest man (despite being an antisocial psycho) in a corrupt police depa... I mean, city watch; an obligatory bar brawl; a mysterious hooded stranger who sits in the shadows of the corner of the tavern; who turns out to be a 'hot chick' (I saw that coming a mile off); who's salivated over by the Watch chief (I can't remember if he said "I like a girl with spirit". Probably did.); who gets kneed in the groin... bleedin' nora, I saw much better writing from the fanficton-roleplaying on the old Warhammer Alliance forums.

It was those two books that finally put me off Black Library. I gave up. You have to scrape through too much unmentionable to find the golden nuggets of corn.

[Craze_b0i]

I'm probably not qualified having read only 6 books. But there is a thing in Reiksguard whey they explain how all the nobles and elector counts send their eldest son to join the Reiksguard. I just didn't buy the idea that the eldest sons of the highest nobility would serve as rank and file, and probably get killed on a tour of duty fighting Chaos Marauders. Realistically the eldest sons of Elector Counts would be trained from a young age as army commanders, sit on their father's council of war and so forth.

[LotlBotl]

Defenders of Ulthuan had some interesting ideas about characterization, but Sons of Ellyrion had some Grade A nonsense going on there when it came to magic. /Especially/ when it came to magic. You had powers being thrown every which way, and it blatantly did not match up to every single other portrayal of high elf/dark elf powers

I'm probably not qualified having read only 6 books. But there is a thing in Reiksguard whey they explain how all the nobles and elector counts send their eldest son to join the Reiksguard. I just didn't buy the idea that the eldest sons of the highest nobility would serve as rank and file, and probably get killed on a tour of duty fighting Chaos Marauders. Realistically the eldest sons of Elector Counts would be trained from a young age as army commanders, sit on their father's council of war and so forth.

If I remember right, the nobles (and anyone important) gets sent to the mounted korps of the Reiksguard, and not the Templars proper. Most of their time (usually) is spent training and in garrison duty at the Imperial Palace. They only get sent out to fight for very important missions and campaigns - and that's really no different from the occasions when the Elector Counts go out to kick ass.

[Craze_b0i]

If I remember right, the nobles (and anyone important) gets sent to the mounted korps of the Reiksguard, and not the Templars proper. Most of their time (usually) is spent training and in garrison duty at the Imperial Palace. They only get sent out to fight for very important missions and campaigns - and that's really no different from the occasions when the Elector Counts go out to kick ass.

The training and garrison duty is when they are novices. After that they are expected to fight in battle, after all that is what they train them for. IIRC the tour of duty is about 10 years or cut short if their father dies.

It may well be that the Reiksguard is only used in important battles, but that still does not make the role of a knight the same as the role of an Elector Count. When an Elector Count goes to battle he is commanding an army, not sitting in the ranks.

On top of that consider the danger of a warhammer battlefield, an Elector would be surrounded by his personal guard, whereas knights are expected to sacrifice themselves heroically.

[LotlBotl]

The Reiksguard are also given the best weapons and armor available for knights, and don't get marched on foot into the enemy.

As far as any man of the Empire asked to actually fight on the field, they have perhaps the safest position to be in. It isn't expected of them to hold their ground like state troops, they aren't told to go and exchange blows on fixed ground behind the shield wall, and their commanders understand that they are valuable shock knights, and certainly won't ask them to sacrifice themselves unless absolutely necessary.

That's not to say that they don't face danger, but they certainly have a much better life expectancy and protection on the field than many other members of the ranks do.

Besides, think about the Empire's neighbor to the west. Abundance of nobles fighting hasn't quite wiped out their political system yet.

[The bearded one]

I'd vote for Orc Slayer. In it, there is an ancient evil that sold it's soul to chaos before the time of the old ones that is sleeping under Karak Hirn. It possesses all of the dwarfs in the hold, leading to them all dying. Now, for anyone who follows the fluff, this means that every man, woman and child in the hold died. Seeing as how 75% of all dwarf children are male, losing any woman is a blow to the race. Losing everyone in the hold? It pretty much means that the hold is dead, and there just aren't enough dwarfs around to properly recolonize it. So, in making up a monster (whose race/powers are never really explained), Nathan Long managed to (probably inadverntely) destroy one of the setting's major cities by dealing a blow that it is impossible to recover from.

This will pretty much top my list of absurd stupidities. Punchingbag dwarfs taken to its extreme.

[Craze_b0i]

The Reiksguard are also given the best weapons and armor available for knights, and don't get marched on foot into the enemy.

As far as any man of the Empire asked to actually fight on the field, they have perhaps the safest position to be in. It isn't expected of them to hold their ground like state troops, they aren't told to go and exchange blows on fixed ground behind the shield wall, and their commanders understand that they are valuable shock knights, and certainly won't ask them to sacrifice themselves unless absolutely necessary.

That's not to say that they don't face danger, but they certainly have a much better life expectancy and protection on the field than many other members of the ranks do.

Besides, think about the Empire's neighbor to the west. Abundance of nobles fighting hasn't quite wiped out their political system yet.

But what happens when a Reiksguard unit charges a unit of chaos warriors and loses. Whoops, we just wiped out half the princes of the Empire.

Elector Counts are virtually kings in their own right. From birth to inheritance they would be trained as leaders, not just on the battlefield but from the political perspective on how to govern (hard if they are absent). In battle the prince would either be part of his father's entourage, or if he was old enough given command over a wing of the army, or in cases where he was the only son he might even be left behind in order to preserve the bloodline if the worst should befall the father.

I don't know that Reiksguard are any significantly safer on the battlefield than state-troops. They are still vulnerable to an awful lot of things, doubley so in a fantasy setting of wizards and monsters.

The ceremonial bit is incongrous as well. You have the prince of Nordland standing on guard duty in a corridor all day long. If he is prince of Nordland that is somewhat beneath his station, and secondly shouldn't someone be guarding him? And so it goes on...

[LotlBotl]

Hey, Chaos Warriors are a) Pretty rare, and b) Reiksguard already had the Reiksguard charging into full plate Chaos Warriors in the first chapter and crushing them.

It's a back and forth thing that GW doesn't clarify, but even in Reiksguard there were non-nobility members who also took part in the fighting, and it's certainly not like every Reiksguard is a son of the elector counts.

When your main duty is to charge, reform, charge, reform, that's all in all not the worst position to be on the battlefield. Especially when you're wearing full body armor, are on horseback, and your army has a doctrine of shooting the enemy with the cannons and then blasting them with the wizards and then counter charging them at their weakest.

And in the end, the Emperor does value his own life over that of the sons of the nobility. No one ever accused the Elector Counts of Reikland of being really nice guys, did they?

[Lorcryst]

I know it's 40K, but ...

Anything written (spewed) by CS Goto.

That guys takes the fluff, gags it, and then rapes it. Sideways. With a shovel.

[Urgat]

Regarding Orcslayer, it's not like it'd be the first dwarf hold to be completely lost. Dwarf fans seem to think that because dwarfs got manhandled badly in the past, they can never ever lose anything again.

To add to your point, orclsyar is pretty dim in that Grimnir's Axe, one of the most potent weapons ever forged, can only make a paper thin dent in the skin of any one who is wearing one of those collars. I'm sorry but what!? Not only is this some never heard of race, that will likely never get mentioned again, but it's capable of handing out magic invulnerability collars that are proof against one of the mightiest weapons forged.

Well, the sword of Khaine, that sword all the elf fans claim is the most powerful in da univeraaaar!!!, proved absolutely useless against a GUO, so that wouldn't be unheard of either.

I managed to mock both dwarf and elf players with that post. This is a good day, says the goblin

[Sheena Easton]

Orcslayer, The Darkblade series, A Murder In Marienburg, most of the Nagash series, the Grimblades killing each other to such an extent that Grom needn't have bothered invading, the Shakespeare wannabe style of Malekith, Ulrika The Petulant running round blabbing about the Lahminas to all and sundry after changing sides with every page turn (and of course the witterings of CS Goto) are all up there, but I can't decide between:

When it is revealed that the whole reason for the the invasion and masterplan to unravel the Vortex is Moriathi acting like a petulant spoilt brat and throwing her toys out the pram because Caledor once called her a cheap tart - even by the incredibly low standards of that abysmal pair of "books" it sits in which is packed with events that are completely retarded, that is a complete WTF moment...

or

The entire Knights Of The Blazing Sun "book" - from moronic plot, busty enemy strumpet luurve interest, dusky beauty aka luurve interest #2, lack of sense of time / scale and a bunch of supposedly devoted knights blindly converting to evil crow symbol toting Chaos Cult worship overnight...

[Dirty Mac]

It seems that Not reading these books was the best choice I ever made.

[FLUEVOG]

The Witch Hunter series from Werner are actually worth the read. I like the tales he spins.

Worst Black Library book I've read was one of the earlier 40K ones. Something about the Eldar Black Vaults that a ragtag group found the path to. Had a stereotypical squat insulting a milquetoast space marine and two homoerotic astropaths. And scrimshaw - etching on bone scrimshaw. That book was godawful.

[The bearded one]

Regarding Orcslayer, it's not like it'd be the first dwarf hold to be completely lost. Dwarf fans seem to think that because dwarfs got manhandled badly in the past, they can never ever lose anything again.

Not 'can never', but 'shouldn't', at least not so flippantly. Losing the entire population of a major hold like that, is like losing.. one or two imperial provinves, permanently, with a big fat red cross penciled over them. The fact that dwarfs are a dying race with low reproduction rate, makes it all the more silly to just kill off several tens of thousands. Even Karaz-A-karak only has a population of a mere 90.000 left.

Plus, dwarfs don't just get manhandled badly in the past, but also present and future. The beastmen AB has a random warherd destroy all dwarf communities and belongings, and hundreds of dwarfs, around Karak Hirn, right up to the very gates, in a single night of drunken brawling. The O&G book has a box where a miscasting shaman causes a mountainpass at a battle to collapse, killing 10.000 dwarfs, the hellpit WD had a text box of the most succesful HPA ever, rampaging through multiple (minor) holds, etc. etc.

And frankly.. that pisses me off

[Urgat]

Why? If a hold falls, it falls. Don't see the big deal. Whatever the fluff says, there's always, always one more hold nearby anyway. So to me losing a hold is like losing a city for the Empire. Wasn't a very large one anyway, iirc? A secondary, remote deal not too far from Barak Var, I think. And I like when dwarfs are pissed off btw (not as much as when it's elves though ). And well, us Greenskins always seem to have a warboss handy to kill for other armies to show how badass everybody else's heroes are (Goldtooth's fluff takes the cake I think), so, buuuh, at least yours always seem to die in a dignified way Besides, it's really cheeky to fault the slayers series for not showing dwarfs in a rather good light most of the time. Oh sure they die in droves, but nothing's left when they're gone to claim victory.