Empire detachments

[gorblud]

Hey, I got a couple of questions about the detachment special rule for Empires.

How is victory points resolved?
Does the enemy have to wipe out both the regimental and the detachment unit to get points, or is the regimental unit enough?

If the regimental unit is wiped out, does the detachment fight on as usual?

Is a counter charge declared when the enemy declares its charge, or when the enemy unit has succeed with a charge?

When do you decide whether the counter charge is a flank/rear or normal charge, after or before the enemy has moved into base contact?

[theunwantedbeing]

1. Treat them as seperate units for the purposes of VP.
2. They fight as seperate units except for the exceptions in the detachment rules.
3. It should say in the detachment rules when you declare counter charges.
4. Whenever the counter charge is declared.

[Mr_Rose]

The first three questions all have the same answer: They are separate units.

The fourth is answered specifically and clearly in the Detachment rules on p.30 of the Empire army book. Actually, the fifth is too, but it's not as clear; the move, which includes the pseudo-declaration of the charge, happens after the enemy has finished it's charge(s) against the parent unit.

[Crube]

According to p30 of the Empire book

Counter Charge

...
This move is made after after your opponent has moved all of his charging units, as long as one or more enemy units has successfully completed a charge against the detachment's Regimental Unit.

...

So 3, it's when the enemy contacts your unit
and
4, it's when the enemy contacts your unit

[gorblud]

"the points cost of a Detachment, and any upgrades it has taken, counts towards the points total of the same unit category as the regimental unit"

I thought that meant that the Detachment was counted for in the regimental unit cost? If not, what does it mean?

thanks for your answers!

edit:

Just read the flank/rear charge in the rulebook. It is determined whether a charge is in the rear, flank or front when the charge is declared.

The empire book says a counter charge is moved after the enemy has moved their chargers, but is declared immidietly after the regimental unit has made its charge reaction. Which basically mean its near impossible to make a flank charge with a detached unit?

[Mr_Rose]

First question; it means the detachment points count against the same category (core, special, rare) as the parent unit. The only case where this currently makes a difference is when a unit of greatswords takes any of the core units as a detachment; those handgunners, or whatever, would count towards the 50% Special points limit in that case. They are still a separate unit though.

Second; you declare the countercharge reaction when they declare their charge, yes. However, a countercharge declaration is not a normal charge declaration only in reverse; it actually triggers the option of making a move that acts like a charge after the enemy has finished moving. Kind of like an overrun charge doesn't have a full declaration either.

[gorblud]

Okay!

So then it is more likely to always be a flank counter charge?

[Mr_Rose]

Depending on the precise alignments, it is relatively easier to get a flank, yes. But if you've got a Horde charging a regular 5-wide unit, your counter could easily still end up hitting the "spare" frontage of the horde unit, depending on how they choose (or the terrain forces them) to align.
This is why the counter is declared as soon as they declare but not resolved until after; there is some calculated risk involved with certain situations that would be eliminated if everything was done later.

[gorblud]

okay, thanks