2000 Imperial Guard with Inquisitorial support (critique wanted!)

[vladsimpaler]

40K Army: Imperial Guard

Be brutal but at the same time be constructive with your critique of this army list. I want it to be a strong list but not overpowering, since I like mostly playing for story but I do also enjoy winning. >

And for reference, my local meta is very terminator heavy. Deathwing and Loganwing all over the place! So of course I needed a way to counter it. This is my result! They are my friends so again I don't want it to be too overpowering but we all play to beat eachother so I don't want to lose out haha
Also I am one point over. This is fine to them but if I wanted this in a tournament it would be illegal. I was thinking of dropping a power axe for one of the commissars. Thoughts?

2000 Imperial Guard [1495 so far]

=HQ= (80)
Company Command Squad (80)
Astropath

=Elites=(65)
Marbo (65)

=Troops= (760)
[Platoon 1] (380)
Platoon Command Squad

20x Imperial Guard-100 (175)
1x Commissar with Power Axe
2x Plasma Guns

20x Imperial Guard-100 (175)
1x Commissar with Power Axe
2x Plasma Guns

[Platoon 2] (380)
Platoon Command Squad

20x Imperial Guard-100 (175)
1x Commissar with Power Axe
2x Plasma Guns

20x Imperial Guard-100 (175)
1x Commissar with Power Axe
2x Plasma Guns

=Heavy Support= (330)
Demolisher-165 (165)

Demolisher-165 (165)

=Fast Attack= (260)
Vendetta(130)

Vendetta(130)

++Allies- Ordo Malleus ++
Inquisitor Hephaestus Mustafina-100
(Coteaz)

Vindicare Assassin-145

Henchmen Unit #1 (75)
2x Crusaders (both armed with Power Axes)
3x Death Cult Assassin (armed with 1 Power Sword and 1 Power Axe)

Henchmen Unit #2 (136)
2x Jokaero (I'm using counts-as Squat engineers to represent the Jokaero)
8x Henchmen with Storm Bolters

Fortifications: (50)
Aegis Defense Line

[Russell's teapot]

1) I don't understand the points on the guard HQ unit, what are they armed with?

2) Why have you got an aegis - as far as I can seee you have nothing that stands still for long enough, or has long enough range weapons to benefit from it

3) Why have the PCS's got no weapons? At least give them flamers/GLs so they can contribute something to the fight & keep their profile low for objective holding (oh, I understand - they are to sit in the vendettas yes?)

4) Why give commissars power axes? Those 2 attacks aren't going to achieve much, save the points or hand out more candy. Personally I'd make sure you have kraks on all your IG blobs so that they can multi-charge tanks & do something rather than adding pointless power weapons

5) Why have the blobs got rapid firing specials when they appear to be on assault/ tar pit duty? I'd go half & half so 2 long range blobs (autocannon/plasma/kraks) and 2 close range (melta or flamer & kraks)

6) Why have you included the =][= contingent - what is it meant to achieve? The squads are too small to actually do anything & out of tanks will last approximately 1 turn.

Overall I think you need to question what you want the =][= contingent for & focus it to having a point that it can actually achieve. You are light on anti-tank, but given you have 80 crazy guardsmen running around then at least give them kraks.

You are going to be taking a lot of casualties given that your only guns with a range of more than 30" (6" move & 24" shot) are 2 heavy bolters on the demolishers & the vendettas which don't start.

Why are you fixated on not being too competative? Have you deliberatly gimped this list?

[vladsimpaler]

1) I don't understand the points on the guard HQ unit, what are they armed with?

Whoops, I should've fixed that. The original points cost is from when I had Straken in the Command Squad. 80 points is the correct value.

2) Why have you got an aegis - as far as I can seee you have nothing that stands still for long enough, or has long enough range weapons to benefit from it

I have it because my friends focus fire and whittle down my troops so I wanted to give them a fighting chance at staying alive! Plus it's good cover for the tanks.

3) Why have the PCS's got no weapons? At least give them flamers/GLs so they can contribute something to the fight & keep their profile low for objective holding (oh, I understand - they are to sit in the vendettas yes?)

Honestly, I've never given my PCS any weapons. I just use them for orders to be honest, and for late game objective holding if it comes to that. Though having them in the Vendettas is actually a really good idea!

4) Why give commissars power axes? Those 2 attacks aren't going to achieve much, save the points or hand out more candy. Personally I'd make sure you have kraks on all your IG blobs so that they can multi-charge tanks & do something rather than adding pointless power weapons

Well to be fair they get 3 attacks because they have 2 close combat weapons. I've personally found that they're pretty useful against Marines and I don't want them just to be limp-wristed when they have to combat with Terminators. However if I did drop them then it would be an additional 40 points so that is pretty smart.

5) Why have the blobs got rapid firing specials when they appear to be on assault/ tar pit duty? I'd go half & half so 2 long range blobs (autocannon/plasma/kraks) and 2 close range (melta or flamer & kraks)

Haha I guess it was for the AP2 so that I could beat up terminators, which are my usual opponents. Though I do like the idea of 2 long range blobs and 2 short range ones. I will be sure to test it out.

6) Why have you included the =][= contingent - what is it meant to achieve? The squads are too small to actually do anything & out of tanks will last approximately 1 turn.

The Inquisitorial contingent is mostly for flavor reasons and I agree that it's not super good, but it is fairly fun to play. The Vindicare on the other hand is definitely worth its points and in a ruin it has a 3+ cover save, so it is super hard to dislodge.

Overall I think you need to question what you want the =][= contingent for & focus it to having a point that it can actually achieve. You are light on anti-tank, but given you have 80 crazy guardsmen running around then at least give them kraks.

You are going to be taking a lot of casualties given that your only guns with a range of more than 30" (6" move & 24" shot) are 2 heavy bolters on the demolishers & the vendettas which don't start.

Why are you fixated on not being too competative? Have you deliberatly gimped this list?

The Inquisitorial support is mostly so that I have at least a little bit in the way of countercharge, with Coteaz in the shooty henchman squad and also the death cult assassins.

And I'm honestly surprised to hear that I'm light on anti-tank. Demolishers are way better now now with the template rules. Vindicares one-shot vehicles like nobody's business, and Vendettas are pretty powerful. But yeah I guess outside of that I'm pretty lacking.

Also you make a great point about not having a range of more than 30", that's hurt me before too, especially against Tau.

Haha, if you're wondering why I'm not focused on being -too- competitive, here is an example of a friend's list that I will be playing against next week, which I am putting in spoiler tags for so that it doesn't take up a ton of room. I wouldn't say that I purposefully gimped the list but I did exclude some more powerful units for stuff that I personally thought was cool.

Anyway, my friend's 2000 point list is right here:

DARK ANGELS (1,300 pts)

HQ

Belial - 130
- SS/TH OR Sword and SB

ELITES
Chaplain Dreadnaught - 125 (note that this is just the Forge World model, but counts as a regular DA dreadnaught)
- Storm bolter
- Plasma Cannon

TROOPS

Deathwing Squad I - 295
1) Sgt w/ standard, chainfist, storm bolter
2) Cyclone Missile Launcher, storm bolter, power fist
3) Storm Bolter, Power fist, Apothecary
4) Storm Bolter, Power fist
5) Lighting Claws

Deathwing Squad II - 250
1) Sgt with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
2) Thunder hammer & Storm Shield
3) Lightning Claws
4) Lighting Claws
5) Assault Cannon, chainfist

Deathwing Squad III - 245
1) Sgt with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
2) Storm Bolter, Chain Fist, Cyclone Missile Launcher
3) Storm Bolter, Chainfist
4) Storm Bolter, Power Fist
5) Storm Bolter, Power Fist

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider - 255
- Storm Bolter (pintle)

BLACK TEMPLAR (700 pts)

HQ

Master of Sanctity - 192
- Artificer Armor
- Adamantine Mantle
- Crozius Arcanum, Rosarius, Crusader Seals
- Frag Grenades
- Power Fist
- Bolt Pistol

TROOPS

Crusader Squad - 239
10 initiates
- Bolt Pistols and Chainswords (8)
- Frag Grenades (10)
- Melta Gun
- Power fist and Bolt Pistol

4 Neophytes
- Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons
- Frag grenades

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider Crusader - 269
- Power of the Machine Spirit
- Extra Armor
- Searchlight
- Smoke Launchers
- Multi-Melta (pintle)

TOTAL: 2,000

Thanks again for the response though! I am definitely reconsidering heavy portions of my army now and I will be posted a revised list soon.

[Russell's teapot]

The general mantra for IG is:
One will die
One will miss
One will do the job
So if you need a squad to do a certain job, you need to have redundancy around the rest of your army to back it up.

What else do you have available to you to add to the IG army?

The reason I say you're light on anti tank is that at 1750 I run 11 tank hulls, most people I know will run at least 6 at that points limit, your army will struggle to take that level AV out. Your friend's list has 2 land raiders, if it could take your Russes out at range (which I admit it can't) then you'd have nothing at all to stop them.

Generally I go through a thought process when I build any list:
1) can I crack enough transports/light tanks (generally 10 at 2000)
2) can I crack enough AV13 at range (generally 3 at 2000)
3) can I crack enough AV14 tanks (generally 3 at 2000)
4) can I kill enough marines (generally 60 at 2000)
5) can I kill enough guardsmen (generally 100 at 2000)
6) can I kill flyers or ignore them

If I can answer yes to all the above then I've created the perfect list. Chances are you can realistically push for 4 of the above & have a decent enough list.

[vladsimpaler]

The general mantra for IG is:
One will die
One will miss
One will do the job
So if you need a squad to do a certain job, you need to have redundancy around the rest of your army to back it up.

What else do you have available to you to add to the IG army?

Haha I do agree with Redundancy! Which is precisely why I have at least 2 of everything in my army list excluding Marbo (who works wonders) and the Company Command squad.

Also this is still a theoretical list, I'm testing it out on Vassal. I have the funds so I can add more or less anything I would want to include. What did you think I needed? Maybe some SWS teams with flamers or meltas?

The reason I say you're light on anti tank is that at 1750 I run 11 tank hulls, most people I know will run at least 6 at that points limit, your army will struggle to take that level AV out. Your friend's list has 2 land raiders, if it could take your Russes out at range (which I admit it can't) then you'd have nothing at all to stop them.

Haha, well I did agree with you. Also the Vindicare is more than capable of taking out a Land Raider at range, with an average armor penetration of 17! (4d6+3 armor pen from the turbo penetrator round). Marbo also has melta bombs if I'm really pressed.

Anyway, I'm very glad that you posted that I had a lack of anti-armor, because last night was the first time I've played against an all-mech army at 2k. Yeah most of the games I've played have been vs. infantry, and I definitely understood what you meant a lot better about there being a ton of vehicles. Granted, Marbo can wipe out one at least, and the Vindicare can blow up one a turn. When the Vendettas come in, they're more than capable of destroying AV12 or less.

Generally I go through a thought process when I build any list:
1) can I crack enough transports/light tanks (generally 10 at 2000)
2) can I crack enough AV13 at range (generally 3 at 2000)
3) can I crack enough AV14 tanks (generally 3 at 2000)
4) can I kill enough marines (generally 60 at 2000)
5) can I kill enough guardsmen (generally 100 at 2000)
6) can I kill flyers or ignore them

If I can answer yes to all the above then I've created the perfect list. Chances are you can realistically push for 4 of the above & have a decent enough list.

I really like that checklist that you've devised and will definitely be making a lot of use of it! Anyway, here is the bare bones of my new 2000 pt list, right now it's just 1475 for the Guard. Basically I'm removing the allied Contingent.

Also I'm curious on if I should either get kraks for everyone, or would 2 melta bombs per squad be better? Because then they can actually pen the vehicle and destroy it that way. Just a thought!



=HQ= (80)
Company Command Squad (80)
Astropath

=Elites=(65)
Marbo-65 (65)

=Troops= (740)
[Platoon 1] (340)
Platoon Command Squad

20x Imperial Guard-100 (155)
1x Commissar
2x Melta Guns

20x Imperial Guard-100 (155)
1x Commissar
2x Melta Guns

[Platoon 2] (400)
Platoon Command Squad-30

20x Imperial Guard-100 (185)
1x Commissar
2x Plasma Guns
2x Autocannons

20x Imperial Guard-100 (185)
1x Commissar
2x Plasma Guns
2x Autocannons

=Heavy Support= (330)
Demolisher-165 (165)

Leman Russ-165 (165)

=Fast Attack= (260)
Vendetta-130 (130)

Vendetta-130 (130)

[Russell's teapot]

Looks a good start to me.

re: kraks v's melta - I go for kraks because they can't be sniped or challenged out. You don't need to pentrate tanks, only glance - 21 kraks = 14 hit a moving vehicle = 7 glances/pentrates at AV10 or 5 at AV 11 - that kills pretty much every tank in the games dead. As you only get one attack with grenades you can even multi charge tanks to spread the love a bit!

I play mech so every squad of mine has kraks as they are all in the midfield, getting their tanks shot out from underneath them & dying in droves, so I need them! If you have a couple of static squads you may decide that you don't - it depends on the points you can spare!

Re: SWS squads, I think they're very handy in a combined arms flyer lists like yours. Firstly I think you need to give your CCS & PCS's a role. Even if it's just to shove some flamers on them to protect your static blobs by flaming stuff that gets near, or putting them in the way of chargers for loads of overwatch hits. If your CCs is going to be backfield then a lascannon (at BS4!) will give them something to do rather than cower - it seems silly not to give your only BS 4 troops some guns that they can use. Once your PCS's have a role you can put a SWS with melta/flamer/demolition charge in the vendettas & jump out if needed to blow some stuff up, or even just be generally annoying.

You seem to be seeing where I'm coming from, I'll keep an eye out on this thread/your posts, but otherwise I'll stop badgering you - if you need any more help, I'm happy to talk through PMs.

Oh, before I go. At 2000 you really need to be thinking about allies. SM allies make great objective holders so you can throw guardsmen into the meat grinder (it's cinematic) and you can get great stuff in their support slots (I'm currently considering the MoTF and 2 x rifleman dreads, but you can get fast melta in speeders & bikes, more tanks with razorbacks & predators, more pie plates with vindicators, counter charge with vanguards, pretty much whatever you like). The most important thing is that the allies fill a role in your list & are kept 'lean and mean'.

[vladsimpaler]

Looks a good start to me.

re: kraks v's melta - I go for kraks because they can't be sniped or challenged out. You don't need to pentrate tanks, only glance - 21 kraks = 14 hit a moving vehicle = 7 glances/pentrates at AV10 or 5 at AV 11 - that kills pretty much every tank in the games dead. As you only get one attack with grenades you can even multi charge tanks to spread the love a bit!

I play mech so every squad of mine has kraks as they are all in the midfield, getting their tanks shot out from underneath them & dying in droves, so I need them! If you have a couple of static squads you may decide that you don't - it depends on the points you can spare!

Oh nice! Yeah that is really good, I definitely like the sound of that! And I suppose that the only vehicle with a 14 back is a Land Raider which I'll be wanting to kill at range anyway (because of its typically hazardous cargo! ) so that makes a lot of sense to me.
I will definitely be including krak grenades in my 2 units with the meltas as I anticipate that the plasma/autocannon units will be providing fire support while gradually moving up. And that's not that expensive either, I basically just drop the power axes in the squad and soon enough I have points for the kraks in that squad! haha

Re: SWS squads, I think they're very handy in a combined arms flyer lists like yours. Firstly I think you need to give your CCS & PCS's a role. Even if it's just to shove some flamers on them to protect your static blobs by flaming stuff that gets near, or putting them in the way of chargers for loads of overwatch hits. If your CCs is going to be backfield then a lascannon (at BS4!) will give them something to do rather than cower - it seems silly not to give your only BS 4 troops some guns that they can use. Once your PCS's have a role you can put a SWS with melta/flamer/demolition charge in the vendettas & jump out if needed to blow some stuff up, or even just be generally annoying.

Okay, yeah I definitely need my PCS and CCS to do something as again, I normally I just use them for orders. But I do like the idea of giving each of them a flamer, and then giving my CCS a heavy weapon since I had planned that they'll be hanging out with the two plasma gun/autocannon squads!

And I do like the idea of two SWS teams with Demolition Charges. Now whether I have the points for them in the end is the real question, although 3 flamers does sound like it'd be pretty fun too! The real importance is that they are annoying, my opponents have "grown" to "love" ( ) Marbo and as such, 2 more demolition charge units that appear out of nowhere seem even better. That's basically 1 dead terminator squad each after all! Me likey.

You seem to be seeing where I'm coming from, I'll keep an eye out on this thread/your posts, but otherwise I'll stop badgering you - if you need any more help, I'm happy to talk through PMs.

Well if there's one thing I was taught as a kid, it's that when you are given good advice you take it! I posted in the thread title that I wanted critique and you were more than happy to help out, so I am more than happy to take your advice!

Oh, before I go. At 2000 you really need to be thinking about allies. SM allies make great objective holders so you can throw guardsmen into the meat grinder (it's cinematic) and you can get great stuff in their support slots (I'm currently considering the MoTF and 2 x rifleman dreads, but you can get fast melta in speeders & bikes, more tanks with razorbacks & predators, more pie plates with vindicators, counter charge with vanguards, pretty much whatever you like). The most important thing is that the allies fill a role in your list & are kept 'lean and mean'.

Okay, sounds good! Yeah I do like the idea of SM allies. My original list instead actually had Grey Knight Terminators instead of the =I= support, but my friends felt that this was "cheesy" so to speak so I ended up dropping them. Though if my friend says that he wants to do a tournament thing then I am adding them back in! I am curious about how you feel about the GK codex as allies. The big problem is that they're all Allies of Convenience, not Battle Brothers. But psyrifleman dreads are super good, or a unit of Purifiers would be pretty cool. Plus interceptors for late game objective grabbing since the rest of my army is pretty slow.

But yeah I don't want my ally contingent to go over around 450 points, something that my current one already does!

[Russell's teapot]

GKs IMO don't do too much for you. Their midfield range isn't really what you need. Accurate fire support is more needed I think. SM can provide that a long range, as well as fast melta. I just think they fit together better. Add the fact that SM characters can join a blob, give it ATSKNF and Ld10, and you're gravy!

However, I'm pretty new to this allies thing myself, so I may be wrong.

[vladsimpaler]

GKs IMO don't do too much for you. Their midfield range isn't really what you need. Accurate fire support is more needed I think. SM can provide that a long range, as well as fast melta. I just think they fit together better. Add the fact that SM characters can join a blob, give it ATSKNF and Ld10, and you're gravy!

However, I'm pretty new to this allies thing myself, so I may be wrong.

Yeah I have been debating getting some Spacewolves allies, especially a Runepriest. For example, I would remove a Commissar from one of the more forward attacking blobs and replace it with a Runepriest. Then I would take a unit of 6 Grey Hunters with a Melta Gun and a Las/plas Razorback and a unit of 5 Long Fangs with the ever-present 4x Missile Launchers. Alternatively, Lysander would be a great challenge unit but I don't know what else from the SM codex I would take, whereas with the Spacewolves I get the long fangs, and the runepriest.