Allies Make Me Cry ;_;

[wanderingblade]

I quite like allies. They make sense from a fluff, collecting and financial standpoint.

My problem with them is the prescriptive way in which they are done, which is unnecessary. Armies like nids get a raw deal whilst every imperial army is rolling in options. Even the FOC aspect is unnecessary. What is wrong with Iron Warriors just taking a couple of basilisks? Space wolves a Leman Russ or Two? Dark Eldar with the odd wraithlord being some 'count as', Imperial Guard and a genestealer squad for a cult?

Nothing to stop you house ruling that and playing it that way at home, or with like minded people anywhere. I think it's correct that for casual, pick-up play between strangers, there's a few restrictions to keep things roughly balanced and what not.

I dont understand the complaints. If you want to buy 5 devestators from the army you play or include space wolves and have 5 long fangs, you're still buying a squad with missile launchers at roughly the same price. So why does that matter? If you were going to buy a librarian from your army or buy a librarian from another army, why does it matter?

a) 35 points isn't an entirely insignificant amount to a Space Marine army. In WAAC play, the savings from carefully selected allies can probably come to a fair bit. Enough to make allies compulsory unless banned? I don't know, but you'd certainly need to be a fool not to look at them.

b) I can understand a gamer who cares mainly about the background getting annoyed by consistent mixed detatchments, or consistent "Counts As" homebrew marine chapters/other stuff that doesn't include the iconic stuff and so on.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do understand it. For some people, it does not fit their game, particularly the more 'cynical' 'slap some grey paint on some squads and use them as SW instead of SM' and so on. I am pro-ally. I'm considering my own 'Count As' homebrew chapter. But there are a few negative issues to this all, and I can understand the man getting het up by them.

[althathir]

The whole allies thing, just upsets me.
Just check this list out and tell me that the inclusion of allies hasn't ruined the army collecting aspect of the hobby.

Grey Knights Librarian
Space Wolves Rune Priest (Jaws + LL)

(X6) 5 Grey Knights Squads with Psycannon in a Razorback with Twin Linked Heavy Bolters and Psybolt Ammo

5 Grey Hunters with Aegis Defence Line and Quad Gun

Space Wolves Dreadnought with 2 Twin linked Autocannon
(X3) Grey Knights Dreadnought with 2 Twin linked Autocannon and Psybolt Ammo

Space Wolves Vindicator

Now I gotta collect 2 armies and mash them together if I want to play in tournaments?
What happened to just being able to collect 1 army and have fun with it?

I dunno, I'm just feeling a little downhearted about the way the game is going with more spam than ever before.
Now we get allied spam too!

You realize that they aren't battle brothers right? Cause in that list every time a GK unit successfully uses a psychic power within 24 inches of the rune priest he rolls to cancel it on a 4+ (you don't choose to use it, it happens whenever an enemy psycher successfully uses a power). So that libby is gonna be kinda bad, and its a slight nerf to everything else, there will be some cheesey ally combinations but for the most part I don't think your gonna have to allies to combat it.

[Haravikk]

Allies are intended for fun, casual games. I think it's fully reasonable that they'll be blanket banned or otherwise restricted in serious tournaments.
Like most everything in the game though it's really up to the player(s) involved.

[althathir]

I actually think Allies were meant for tournies, its a fast fix for alot of armies that have weaknesses. Take eldar right now our big weakness is not having durable troops (that aren't super expensive). Now if im in a tourney I can ally belial and 2 squads of deathwatch, add a couple of squads of jetbikes and I don't have to rely on the weakest part of my army (the newer dexes seem to benefit much less from taking allies).

In fun pickup games there are tons of ways to make the game more balanced. Its tougher to do it tournies without rules like this.

[Glen_Savet]

I dislike that the Black Templar are battle brothers with Grey Knights, but not with Sisters of Battle. Obnoxiousness!

[althathir]

I dislike that the Black Templar are battle brothers with Grey Knights, but not with Sisters of Battle. Obnoxiousness!

Um grey knights aren't battle brothers with anyone, they're allies of convenience w/ BT (who are desperate allies with sisters). So its kinda worse

[Threeshades]

Er... I guess?

Thing is, I could easily argue the opposite. Many counts as armies *benefit* from the allies chart by allowing you new options you never had before. I can now take "war walkers" in my IG army with double MLs but model them like a double ML sentinel. I could similarly add a "Looted Russ" to my Orks army via allies while counts-as-ing the "Guard" as something else (grots with guns!)

Etc..

Sure, you can't do genestealer cults very well, but most everything else (tau with auxillaries, renegade IG, allied legions of marines, eldar/DE forces, etc..) can be done in a nice easy way.

I agree, there are more counts-as possibilities now than there were before, not less. Sure there could be even more if the ally chart were opened up, but still saying the ally chart has hurt counts-as is turning the facts upside down.

By the way, for your looted russ ally, just use the guardsmen (or better yet penal legions) for diggaz. And a squad of ogryns woldnt hurt the old school style either.

[MrdrumMachine]

Allies are intended for fun, casual games. I think it's fully reasonable that they'll be blanket banned or otherwise restricted in serious tournaments.
Like most everything in the game though it's really up to the player(s) involved.

I really don't see major tournaments in the states banning allies, they allow for so much more variation between armies it's really the most excited I've been in years to go to tournaments. Tau and Orks have a lot of synergy that by themselves can't be achieved unlike other stand alone codecies like guard or almost all the SM variants. I love being able to take my 4 armies and combine them in several different ways that previously only power armored armies were able to do (today my rainbow marines are blood angels/space wolves/salamanders!). Now I can say I'm playing Codex Torks or Taucrons or Necrorks and I've got so many army builds I can try between them with minimal further investment that this is really one of the best times I've ever had with the game.

[Dark Aly]

I suppose my ravenwing could have some saim han allies for a bit of pace.

[Plecohead]

Couldn't be put better Williamsond

[MajorWesJanson]

You realize that they aren't battle brothers right? Cause in that list every time a GK unit successfully uses a psychic power within 24 inches of the rune priest he rolls to cancel it on a 4+ (you don't choose to use it, it happens whenever an enemy psycher successfully uses a power). So that libby is gonna be kinda bad, and its a slight nerf to everything else, there will be some cheesey ally combinations but for the most part I don't think your gonna have to allies to combat it.

Nope. Not true.

[Erik_Morkai]

Nope. Not true.

What part?

[Vaktathi]

The designers never intended for 6th edition to be a balanced ruleset, the allies rules weren't implemented with any sort of balance considerations in mind, and the design staff said as much at their Open Day event a few weeks ago.

This is simply the reality of 6th edition. It's a framework designed to allow usage of most Citadel Miniatures products in imaginary cinematic battles, it is not a balanced tactical wargame. Make of that what you will.

[SpikeyFreak]

I dont understand the complaints. If you want to buy 5 devestators from the army you play or include space wolves and have 5 long fangs, you're still buying a squad with missile launchers at roughly the same price. So why does that matter? If you were going to buy a librarian from your army or buy a librarian from another army, why does it matter?

This is how I feel. 2000 points is 2000 points. Do you buy a land raider or a couple broadsides? Either way it's about the same as far as money/work goes.

[Sexiest_hero]

It sucks for multiplayer games, I fought DE allied with eldar teamed with Eldar allied wit DE. I just got pissed and shot them all to hell.

[Vaktathi]

This is how I feel. 2000 points is 2000 points. Do you buy a land raider or a couple broadsides? Either way it's about the same as far as money/work goes.

2000pts isn't just 2000pts. The long fangs example is a great one, you get an extra heavy weapon and an extra dude for 20 fewer points and the ability to engage 2 targets, all for the loss of one dude firing at +1BS. The Long Fangs are a clearly superior investment in points (hence why you tended to see them fielded in triplicate in SW armies in 5th and you almost never saw Devastators fielded).

The other issue is that armies are generally designed and balanced around a certain set of capabilities. Giving a gunline sudden access to a highly capable counter-assault unit, or giving a deathstar list access to large numbers of horde troops and cheap fire support tosses any semblance of balance out the window.

Lets not forget that access to, and quality of, allies is not universal. IG can ally with almost everyone and have IIRC 6 or 7 Battle Brothers. Tyranids can't ally with anyone.

[tiger g]

The designers never intended for 6th edition to be a balanced ruleset, the allies rules weren't implemented with any sort of balance considerations in mind, and the design staff said as much at their Open Day event a few weeks ago.

This is simply the reality of 6th edition. It's a framework designed to allow usage of most Citadel Miniatures products in imaginary cinematic battles, it is not a balanced tactical wargame. Make of that what you will.

Great Point

[Monospot]

As a fluffy, narrative games of 23+ years of 40K, allies make me giddy. Now just come up with an Allies/Mercs codex, bring back my genestealer cults (oh leaked list be true), and let me field my vulture kroot, and I will be doubly giddy.

Seriously, though, Allies add a whole new set of tools to the gamer's box. As with any tool, they can be horribly abused by ultra-competative WAAC types, or they can be appropriately applied to a fun game. I personally feel that they add balance to the game by providing options for armies that are weak in a given area (except the poor bugs). Also, I feel that having the ability to let the 40K universe's actual allies (i.e. the Imperium) interact in a positive fashion on the tabletop really enhances the game.

[MajorWesJanson]

What part?

Hmm. Guess by RaW that does happen. I was wrong, and apparently we are doing it wrong with SW allies at my FLGS.

[agurus1]

I don't think its stupid if people don't try and abuse it (always going to happen but most people at least where I play are pretty cool). I personally am looking forward to having a couple of cheap platoons of Traitor Guard in for my Iron Warrior's