A paragraph from Descent of Angels caught my eye:
What do you think? Is the cabal here same as Cabal in Legion and Deliverance Lost?
A paragraph from Descent of Angels caught my eye:
What do you think? Is the cabal here same as Cabal in Legion and Deliverance Lost?
Order. Unity. Obedience.
could be.
although the watchers in the dark seem to all be the ame shape and size ,whereas the cabal in legion was very patchwork.
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Plus the watchers seem to be very focused on Caliban while the Cabal in Legion is a bit more big picture. They could always be a splinter group though, the Inquisition has factions with different takes on how to deal with problems, the Cabal could have had similar internal differences.
They could be the warp echo of the cabal i suppose?
I think it's certainly possible, if not likely. It seems a little unlikely that the Cabal has a constant meeting on the go, or that all the member races are always represented at the meetings. Sometimes Jawa Dave the Watcher can't make it and sends his apologies, other times it's someone else. As long as they can get in touch psychically, they need not ever be in the one spot even. So aye, they very well could be.
I think people are generally putting too much weight on the name "The Cabal" for that group of Xenos in Legion, assuming that whenever the "cabal" is used in the 40K setting since it referes to that specific group*. It is just a word.
Still, of course, it could be that group they are referring to, we'll have to wait and see. My bet is on a "no" though, the Watchers are doing their own thing, the cabal here being the conclave of other Watchers.
*Like how an entry in the leaked release list now had people riled up over models for them when it is likely just something for a cabal of chaos cultists...
There could be a possible connection.
It is mentioned in Legion that they tried to work with the Dark Angels before going with the Alpha Legion but they were already corrupted or something. IIRC.
I thought it was fairly obvious they were guarding the taint in Caliban on behaf of the Cabal.
Originally Posted by Spider-pope
This.
Ok, assume two disparate factions of Xenos are fighting "The Great Annihilator", with the kind of knowledge and ability each possess it would be nearly impossible to say these groups are not aware of each other. If they are aware of each other and are fighting towards the same end why aren't they cooperating as a single coordinated group?
I understand where you're coming from when you're talking about applying too much meaning to the use of the word but there's also a risk of attaching too little significance. It's entirely possible for the term to have specific in-universe meaning above and beyond that of the dictionary definition of a word (especially in a setting that's so free and easy with metaphor and simile) and this is an example of it in use, the Watcher uses more than one term in the explanation of their mission all of which would have been sufficient without that word.
Unless these Cultists also have taken it upon themselves to use the names of established in-universe xenos species, I'm not buying this (whilst maintaining a certain level of scepticism about the "leak").Like how an entry in the leaked release list now had people riled up over models for them when it is likely just something for a cabal of chaos cultists...
At the risk of a tangent.... and for the sake of offering a different spin.
Initially I was pretty incredulous that GW would give a BL plot progressing faction an "On table" presence but switch it around.
It's possible that GW had a disparate group of lesser alien factions in the works some time ago (it's been a topic of discussion pretty much since WHFB's Dogs of War was first sighted, it would be doing them a disservice to assume none of the design team had considered it), maybe at the time Dan Abnett was writing Legion it was little more than a name, or a side project without much meat to it but it could have been there all the same. GW are pretty good at seeding the setting with hooks for use later (C'tan for example) this could represent the next evolution in that, put a faction in the middle of the Heresy and you have them solidly anchored into the setting ten thousand years ago.
Far fetched? Maybe, but consider the 6th Edition Psychic disciplines. Exactly the same as the disciplines devised by Magnus on the governing principals of how he understood the Warp as described in Thousand Sons.
Chicken or Egg? It could be that the BL writers' are starting to have a tangible influence on the development of the game itself, the Psychic disciplines exist because of Thousand Sons, the Cabal (if legit) are the expression of what appeared in Legion.
Either way, it makes it interesting to look at the Heresy series again and wonder what other things are in there because they're being inserted to the setting at ground level. Knights and Robots, please for the love of the Omnissiah. Knights and Robots
Now back to your scheduled programming....
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I'd say you are seeing patterns where there are none...
The diciplines there, they are, apart from being rather intuitive fields, something that has been in fantasy gaming for decades... even if you are not going further than GW themselves, they are the same that were in Inquisitor (2000) and Necromunda (1995).
Well, that was my point - It isn't a name... A cabal is a group of conspirators (and in fantasy fiction, wizards and such). The Dark Eldar are organised in cabals (though spelled with K...), Ahrimans gang that helped him with the rubric and got exiled alongside him was a cabal of senior sorcerers, etc...Unless these Cultists also have taken it upon themselves to use the names of established in-universe xenos species, I'm not buying this (whilst maintaining a certain level of scepticism about the "leak").
My guess is that we are rather going to see the Cabal (capital C, and a "the" there to note the specific group...) destroyed, by either the traitors or lojalists, or something like an Eldar faction that don't agree on their plan, before we get to the end of the Heresy series. It just feels like something that would fit, dramatically, otherwise they are just these guys who's plan didn't work out, and they are still shuffling around in the shadows a bit embarresed 10.000 years later. Which would be anticlimatic.
except the watchers are localised to Caliban right? so if the Cabal have never been to Caliban they wouldnt know about each others existance.
The Cabal implies that it tried to recruit a Legion to their cause and failed. If they thought XX Legion presented an opportunity, it's pretty plausible that they tried with I Legion first.
Suggesting only. I remain sceptical, but not closed minded to the posibility that a company can plan it's fiction ahead of time.
You are, of course, right. I had actually largely forgotten about the Inquisitor disciplines and, as a devout Cawdor, my experience with them extends purely to using them as fuelThe diciplines there, they are, apart from being rather intuitive fields, something that has been in fantasy gaming for decades... even if you are not going further than GW themselves, they are the same that were in Inquisitor (2000) and Necromunda (1995).that, and I'd forgotten about them
The name I was clumsily alluding to was "Cabal Tarellian Cotor with Dragontongue". The Tarellians are an established non-playable faction (at the moment), you're suggesting that the Cabal units mentioned in the Hobbit dump could merely be a Chaos Cult thing, if this were the case (and the dump is legit) we wouldn't have them labelled as a known Xenos species.Well, that was my point - It isn't a name...
The Cabal are a multi species effort, it'd be pretty likely that one of the umpteen species of the Cabal would be aware of Caliban and it's denizens, if this were true, having a similar cause would most likely generate the occasion to at least offer of resource pooling or membership of the Cabal. I also doubt the Cabal would have had much difficulty getting to Caliban prior to the Lion's ascendancy and the coming of the Emperor. Might be a little more dangerous after then but we know the Cabal have a good number of human representatives.
Both groups are also pretty good at telepathic communication, meaning that physical presence may not be necessary to have some kind of discourse.
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occam's razor chem. The explanation that requires the least amount of assumptions is the most probable one. The assumption that they simply happen to use that word against all the assumptions you just made?
Which bit? I addressed three different topics.
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oh thats what i get for skimming trough it =P
This. After their fail with the alpha legion, they thried it with the dark angels.
>> Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? <<
Space Wolves: Logan Grimnars Great Company http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...arhound-titan)
Other way around. They imply in the book that AL is their second attempt because they're the newest legion and the most likely to not be completely propoganda brainwashed.
I'm with Chem-Dog here. There seems to be a group of people who insist on railing against what the background is clearly trying to imply because it is not explicitly spoonfed to them.
Um yeah, OK, I'm inclined to follow the hints as opposed to assuming that everything is a complete coincidence and that the two writers of the books accidentaly both had the same idea and used the same wording by mistake without meaning there to be any link.
Ahh! OK, my mistake, somehow I missed that line and just saw the "Cabal Alpha Psyker" under it... which, by its lonesome sounded a lot like something fitting a cabal of chaos cultists.
Pretty sure the Alpha Legion were approached after the Dark Angels were. Though I admit to having a little trouble with the general timeline.
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Given the fairly regular "High Lords of Terra" meetings the authors have, I'm inclined to believe there's a very large amount of cooperation and inter-author chat about these things.Um yeah, OK, I'm inclined to follow the hints as opposed to assuming that everything is a complete coincidence and that the two writers of the books accidentaly both had the same idea and used the same wording by mistake without meaning there to be any link.
Which is why I suggested the Cabal as a deliberate insert as a retroactive "always been there" faction.
Funnily enough, I went into that thread to copy the name for use in my post above, saw the Alpha Psyker and thought to myself "If it were only an Alpha Psyker listed, it'd be a good guess"
@TheDungen
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