Most useless units

[jindianajonz]

Like the title says, which units or characters seem like they need a bit of tweaking to get them back on the battlefield, and more importantly, why? Either their rules are outdated/broken, they are overcosted, or the army just features something else that totally eclipses what this unit brings. Also, how would you go about fixing those units so that they become viable again? Not become overpowered/must include in every army, but nice and balanced so that players may start using them again.

Rather than just listing units (which I've seen done in past threads) i'm trying to get a better sense of why they are bad, and brainstorm ideas on how to correct them.

[tmarichards]

Warhawk Riders

[b0007452]

As an Empire player... Pistoliers.

Too expensive, or an adjustment to their damage output is needed I feel. A shame as the models look kick-ass and they are such a cool concept.

[cyberspite]

I would have said glade riders are worse than warhawks, except for the fact they are core so you can build an avoidance strategy around them.

Warhawks need to be better in combat, I see them as a support unit / warmachine, chaff hunters. Probably at least 5pts cheaper, fly through woods with no penalty, 2 attacks each for the riders. Also the option for characters to ride warhawks and join the unit.

Glade riders need to offer a bit more of a threat, maybe 2pts cheaper and glade guard longbows. Run into short range, strength 4 shots, run away. Still flimsy as hell if caught but a much better harassment unit.

[Ultimate Life Form]

Anything that has 'swarm' in its name and/or rules... for ALL the reasons you have lined out.

[TornadoCreator]

Chaos Forsaken, they're just far too unpredictable and too expensive to justify pouring points into. Sure, when they work they work well, and they can potentially outdo Chaos Warriors but for significantly less points you can have a unit of Chaos Warriors with full command and Mark Of Khorne, which will outperform Forsaken 9 times out of 10, and the Chaos Warriors are core. With the Forsaken being an unmodelled choice, you'd hope it'd encourage people to convert models, but honestly it doesn't. People would rather make custom Chaos Warriors than have them represent Forsaken, and that's unfortunate.

[Nubl0]

As an Empire player... Pistoliers.

Too expensive, or an adjustment to their damage output is needed I feel. A shame as the models look kick-ass and they are such a cool concept.

Disagree here, I am finding them pretty good. Not OMG WTF great but decent. Certainly not useless.

[Enigmatik1]

Warhawk Riders

Seconded. I like the premise and the models. I'd probably field them if I ran WE (I run Ushabti for Ptra's sake in nearly half of my lists) but I'd do so knowing that I'm basically giving away points.

[Drasanil]

Repeater Bolt Throwers (High & Dark), they're expensive, Rare, and really not all that impressive.

[Rolo Ramone]

Grail reliquae and the battle pilgrims. It not that bad, but you better take men-at-arms for a cheaper option for the same use. So, is a useless unit (I really like the models, must say).

[Darkminion]

Plague Censor Bearers, man I love these guys, but since 8th edition can't put myself to using them...

D...

[N0th1ng c4n b34t 3lv3s]

Shadow Warriors... yes they have their uses but they are one of our elite infantry and having the same stat line and worse equipment than a citizen and costing more than all of the other elites is just wicked. Giving them WS5 BS5, additional hand weapons and some kind of special rule like hit 'n run or harass on random unit before the first turn starts could fix them.

[ihavetoomuchminis]

Empire Mortar

[hawo0313]

another for the grail relique an extra 4 pts per model so that your guys get a ward save.. that they already have from parry
so you fall back onto that Ws 2 S 3 statline

[NitrosOkay]

Elf bolt throwers are probably balanced around not being able to misfire.

[Urgat]

Didn't we have that topic like one month ago? Same vote as last time, snotlings. Expensive, special slot swarm. 'nough said.

[Jal]

Snotlings, Warhawok Riders, Centigor, Forsaken,

[Makaber]

I'm not saying Centigors are where they ought to be, but it feels harsh to lump them in the same category as Snotlings. Centigors at least are a fast unit that packs a significant punch, while I have no idea what anybody could ever accomplish with Snotlings.

[Dark Aly]

for my armies-
O&G
snotlings; need to be about 15 points, core and regain their old mimic rules for giggles. They could also do with an update to the swarm rules in the MRB but till then I'd be content with my other suggestions.
Squig hoppers; many people don't like them, I think they pretty good but could be a shade cheaper
Boar boys; again I quite like them but a few points off wouldn't hurt
Stone trolls; I think the 5+ save is great but the MR is fairly pointless unless you playing against a fire wizard.

Empire
Pistoliers; Like squiq hoppers I don't think they're that bad but are a bit costly for what they do (redirectors, hinderance, chaff)
Swordsmen; too costly a point drop is needed IMHO
Handgunners/ crossbowmen; again too many points
Mortar; a return to S3 OR 75 points would be more appropriate (the latter would be best I think)

Dwarfs
Flame cannon; needs to either move and shoot or a range increase as well as a significant price drop
Gyro; needs a rewrite with 8th ed in mind from the ground up I feel
Slayers; A better damage out put verses monsters, monstrous infantry and monstrous cavalry so dwarves do not have to rely on cannons quite so much
Iron breakers; A slight points drop

Vamps
I'm very happy with the internal and external balance and I can't think of any units I don't use on at least an occaisonal basis (yes even fell bats)

WoC
I don't care anymore they bore me so much

[Blkc57]

For Skaven its Globadiers.....but I still love them! I can't help i with their the cute little gas masks with ears.