GW's Secrecy

[Omniassiah]

The spoiling, sometimes up to a month in advance for 90% of a set, causes a decided reduction in "gambling" purchases. The thrill of cracking open a pack and seeing a card you've not seen before satisfies some fairly powerful urges. Being able to read the entire setlist before your local retailer ever receives a pack isn't a good thing for them.

Never seen that at my local store, The gambling has never been about getting a card never seen but pulling that great Rare/Mythic Rare, which is a constant regardless of the fact the set is spoiled. Then again it can be the differing of the location, We have a very competitive scene for MTG and the main players know the cards from spoilers. They still buy the same amount of packs, still do all the different Draft/Sealed events for the rare pulls.

Of course, i know its GWs fault for not protecting themselves adequately. And yes, interest can wane quite quickly. We used to have a whisper period (GW, I no longer work there) that had at one time 3-4 weeks till launch where people could play using new models, rules etc. this was when the Tau Empire came out. By the time it was released most people had lost interest so youre wrong on that point. And yes, some people do, some people dont. Its cool to see previews and so on every so often, though so many people here feel like they are owed something, you are not. If they want to do business that way let them, there is always a reason behind it.

Wait, not sure I get this. Are you saying you had the chance to play with the models and use the rules a full month before release. If that is what you meant then that is way too much information that early. Full rules should at best be available on day of pre-orders. But there is really no reason for a small article or podcast from the developers mentioning what they are working on maybe 2-3 months out. Confirming release dates about 1 month out with some pictures up around that time.

[Inquisitor Kallus]

Never seen that at my local store, The gambling has never been about getting a card never seen but pulling that great Rare/Mythic Rare, which is a constant regardless of the fact the set is spoiled. Then again it can be the differing of the location, We have a very competitive scene for MTG and the main players know the cards from spoilers. They still buy the same amount of packs, still do all the different Draft/Sealed events for the rare pulls.



Wait, not sure I get this. Are you saying you had the chance to play with the models and use the rules a full month before release. If that is what you meant then that is way too much information that early. Full rules should at best be available on day of pre-orders. But there is really no reason for a small article or podcast from the developers mentioning what they are working on maybe 2-3 months out. Confirming release dates about 1 month out with some pictures up around that time.

Yes, I am saying that as we did it with the Tau empire release in my store. They don't need to do a podcast or anything of the sort. It may however be useful for them to. I know very well how release schedules, promotions ans the like are handled by the company and I believe a number of incidents (Chapterhouse, the rogue security staff member, New Line and a number of other things have led to them choosing to restrict rumours. I dont see it as a roblem if thats what they want to do, I started back in the early 90s when there was no internet and there was no over whelming need to get as much information as possible. I find it quite funny that people have so little patience. On second thoughts, its not funny it just goes to show that a lot of people in this day and age are never satisfied. Its quite a childish notion, especially for something as frivolous as toy soldiers...

[semper_fi]

isnt it better to ask yourself the following question.....

Why does GW use the clampdown strategy? is it because of the competition, a marketing strategy, increase of impulse buys you name it.
personally i dont like this, i always loved the leaked pics and rules but since clampdown there is not much to go on .....

[shades of blue and grey]

I think it comes down to loyalty were not talking about the latest apple i phone, we can swap them for something else whenever we want, we cant really do that with this and if gw makes something we dont like were stuck with it, were loyal thats why we feel hurt if they muck are model up, look at liegion of damed great models iv got them but rules for them suck do to pts, cant use them in proper games yet id love to, now you get that feeling "ow but i want to (feet stomp)" you've payed money for them. But that is the hobby we are in.

[shelfunit.]

I think it comes down to loyalty were not talking about the latest apple i phone, we can swap them for something else whenever we want, we cant really do that with this and if gw makes something we dont like were stuck with it, were loyal thats why we feel hurt if they muck are model up, look at liegion of damed great models iv got them but rules for them suck do to pts, cant use them in proper games yet id love to, now you get that feeling "ow but i want to (feet stomp)" you've payed money for them. But that is the hobby we are in.

Actually, in that respect you can swap GW for something else whenever you want, and unless you are completely tied to GW to the extent that you feel you "have" buy the newest whatever (that's addiction by the way) you are most certainly not "stuck with it".
It does sound odd that a lot of the posts that are rebuking people do so for "loyalty", basing a business on loyalty and the assumption that people will always buy regardless of what it is that is released can be a particularly shakey foundation.

[RevEv]

Apple have a culture of secrecy but we know iPhone 5 is coming. That's not a secret, just exactly what it does is. There time frame of telling you what's coming and the eventual release is a lot longer than one week.

A good analogy! We know Apple are releasing an iPhone 5 soon, we don't as yet know when or what features it will have. Apple's secrecy does not remove the interest in the product or the hysteria when it is released.

Similarly we all know GW are releasing a new 40K starter set, we know when, it is only now we know what is in the box. Our interest is piqued by the rumours, whether we are as hysterical about the actual release as Apple freaks is another matter.

I, for one, like that GW are able to reveal new stuff only a week or so before it is released. Makes no difference to my spending pattern however, except for a big release.

[Killgore]

Personally, I think its false advertisement to say vengance is coming August 25th as that will only be pre-orders with the actual set not getting released till the 1st of september at the earliest. This is much like their big "release party" for 6th edition. Thousands of gamers went expecting to get their paws on a real rulebook didn't happen. All you got was a photo catalogue aka white dwarf that told you what to look forward to preordering rather than tell you anything about it.

I am beyond thankful for the leaks of the pictures as now I know I am free to spend money elsewhere as I hate the Dark Angels figures (they look cartoonish and silly) AND I won't have to buy another blundering edition of white dwarf to look at 60 pages of pictures of the same thing over and over again and a forced battle report with the starter set (in which the DA will be extremely triumphant due to an unbalanced box.

You’re basing your opinions on the new Dark Angels models on a few dodgy scan pictures.

Wouldn't it be great if you changed your opinion when you inevitably get to see the 360 pictures of the new models on GW's site.

If you viewed the new models for the first time as GW marketing intended you might have a more positive view of them.

I can see why designers get annoyed with leaks.

[Commissar Merces]

You’re basing your opinions on the new Dark Angels models on a few dodgy scan pictures.

Wouldn't it be great if you changed your opinion when you inevitably get to see the 360 pictures of the new models on GW's site.

If you viewed the new models for the first time as GW marketing intended you might have a more positive view of them.

I can see why designers get annoyed with leaks.

The last set of pictures were far from dodgy. Combine that with the fact I have never really liked the feather motif on the terminators and the librarian with a bib not to mention ape man sergeant, it just doesn't feel like my style of dark angels. Don't even get my started on the chaplain and the smoke effect that looks more like ectoplasm than smoke regardless of how you paint it. I've had my army since 2001 and have centered them around robes and minimalist decoration as I view them as warrior monks. The models depicted in that box are far to garish and would class terribly with my models to be honest (except for the tac squad but I already have half a dozen of those).

The chaos models, however, have almost inspired me to start a chaos renegade list with allied chaos marines.

[Omniassiah]

You’re basing your opinions on the new Dark Angels models on a few dodgy scan pictures.
Wouldn't it be great if you changed your opinion when you inevitably get to see the 360 pictures of the new models on GW's site.
If you viewed the new models for the first time as GW marketing intended you might have a more positive view of them.
I can see why designers get annoyed with leaks.

So do some actual marketing by doing the leaks themselves the way they want it. I remember a discussion I had with some of the Devs when I was at Warhammer world about 4-5 years ago. This topic came up and the reason for clamping down on releases is so that you are more likely to spend money on the current release then the one coming up. Well I sarcastically explained that doing so increased my purchasing of whatever fantasy army was currently released by about 5000 times, it was from 0 dollars to 0 dollars. Not doing any type of marketing before means that those leaks are the ONLY thing you have to go by until last minute. Now for the cost of GW stuff anymore most people tend to plan for the spending. If its over $30 I make sure that I budget for it so that I still have money to do other things that I want to do as well. The surprise of stuff coming out isn't that big of a deal. Now look at Battlefront, I know the release dates for for the entire month a week or 2 before the month start. As the stuff starts to come closer to available the start doing spotlights to show the products off. I don't need to go scrounging around the web to find out what is the next codex or army to see if I need to budget some money aside, I know ahead of time and can plan for it.

Funny story involving my FLGS, he got his weekly call from his rep and asked if he had any news on the Necrons coming out, the stuff important to a retailer Cost/Prices/When he'll need to have pre-orders ready for/etc. he was told that there was no information available that the necrons would be next alright kind of but here is the kicker, the next day he got a call from the same rep asking how many of the new Necron boxes he wanted to pre-order. Now of course my store owner not so politely told him off and later did the same to his boss at Gamma. For the 40k release he had to go tell people to order directly from GW because they didn't do any planning with making the special versions/sets available to retailers. Needless to say after all this he has been drawling down stock of GW product and has been pushing other companies and I can't blame him.

Now I can't think of a single major manufacturer or producer that gives a one week notice that something even exists. Usually its a 1-3 month ad campaign leading up to the release.

[f2k]

You’re basing your opinions on the new Dark Angels models on a few dodgy scan pictures.

Wouldn't it be great if you changed your opinion when you inevitably get to see the 360 pictures of the new models on GW's site.

If you viewed the new models for the first time as GW marketing intended you might have a more positive view of them.

I can see why designers get annoyed with leaks.

And why a few dodgy scans? Because Games Workshop doesn’t bother doing any kind of pre-release work themselves.

It’s interesting how other miniature companies have absolutely no problem showing previews and setting release dates several months in advance.

Compare this with the gaming industry. How long ago is it that we saw the first previews of Diablo 3? For how long have we known that Borderlands 2 is coming? How long before release did Max Payne go on pre-order? Etc., etc., etc...

If clamping down this tightly on rumours and hype works so well, then how come no one else is doing it?

[Kijamon]

Using Diablo 3 as your evidence blows your argument out of the water. It was later than late, they didn't let on till the last possible second that single player required you to be connected to the internet and it was in fact nowhere near as good as people hyped it to be and was just an auction house with added game.

If you want GW to do a Blizzard then they'll show you awesome holy sketches of joy, screenshots of beautiful amazing models from the front and then they'll release them without having any actual rear to the models and the rules will suck. Then they'll tell you you need to pop in to your local GW store every week to upgrade them with various weapons.

[shelfunit.]

If you want GW to do a Blizzard then they'll show you awesome holy sketches of joy, screenshots of beautiful amazing models from the front and then they'll release them without having any actual rear to the models and the rules will suck. Then they'll tell you you need to pop in to your local GW store every week to upgrade them with various weapons.

Well, to the first point there, they do have FC, which often has similar problems, and the rules are nothing special to shout about either...

[Killgore]

And why a few dodgy scans? Because Games Workshop doesn’t bother doing any kind of pre-release work themselves.

It’s interesting how other miniature companies have absolutely no problem showing previews and setting release dates several months in advance.

Compare this with the gaming industry. How long ago is it that we saw the first previews of Diablo 3? For how long have we known that Borderlands 2 is coming? How long before release did Max Payne go on pre-order? Etc., etc., etc...

If clamping down this tightly on rumours and hype works so well, then how come no one else is doing it?

How many of these game companys are updating existing models? Heres the problem, GW are a business that release models that can last you a lifetime if kept in good condition. However to fund new releases they need to keep selling the old stuff. Now if everyone saw what was comming a few months in advance, lets say for example a new Chaos Space Marine squad, the sales of the old kit would tank as everyone would be saving up for the newer all singing, all dancing kit. The same principle applies to much of the GW range. GW needs the sales of the older kit to fund the new stuff!

[jack da greenskin]

How many of these game companys are updating existing models? Heres the problem, GW are a business that release models that can last you a lifetime if kept in good condition. However to fund new releases they need to keep selling the old stuff. Now if everyone saw what was comming a few months in advance, lets say for example a new Chaos Space Marine squad, the sales of the old kit would tank as everyone would be saving up for the newer all singing, all dancing kit. The same principle applies to much of the GW range. GW needs the sales of the older kit to fund the new stuff!

Not half as much as you'd think. GW don't update kits all that often, especially plastic>plastic, much more common is metal>plastic, and even then, I think they'd rather you got the plastic because the profit margin is so much higher.

In short, you're kinda right, but that's nowhere near the full reason, and to assume it is, is wrong.

[The Phazer]

And after iphone5 will be 6. So? Again no idea what it does. Just like a new codex we know they are coming ( except wood elves) just do not know what will be new. Actually spend more with the secrecy as I buy what I like. Old way was always waiting for three releases down the road.

Err... yeah we do. We know everything about the iPhone 5. The dimensions (it's longer and has a taller screen), the camera unit, the shape of the motherboard, the capacity of the battery etc etc.

Apple spends more on secrecy than GW's entire revenue, and they still fail miserably. Why would GW choose to ignore empirical reality?

Secrecy doesn't work for companies unless you are sufficiently mainstream that a sudden announcement gets you in the mainstream press, like Apple. If you're a small or niche company like GW are it's just crapping all over your long term marketing, and you sell vastly less product as a result.

A combination of GW's secrecy and the damage they've done to modelling with the loss of the bits service has seen my spending drop from several thousand a year to less than a hundred.

[ForgottenLore]

How many of these game companys are updating existing models? Heres the problem, GW are a business that release models that can last you a lifetime if kept in good condition. However to fund new releases they need to keep selling the old stuff. Now if everyone saw what was comming a few months in advance, lets say for example a new Chaos Space Marine squad, the sales of the old kit would tank as everyone would be saving up for the newer all singing, all dancing kit. The same principle applies to much of the GW range. GW needs the sales of the older kit to fund the new stuff!

You mean like when Spartan Games redesigned the entire Uncharted Seas range of miniatures and started regularly showing us renders of the new CAD files months in advance to build up hype?

Or when Privateer was getting ready to start switching to plas-resin and released teaser pics of the new war jack sculpts?

[Elric]

I agree that it's nice to see new miniatures prior to their release, however for the majority of customers, for whom White Dwarf is the first viewing of new releases, the current strategy is working quite well.
I think it's rather childish to get angry about not being able to see pictures of toy soldiers six months before they're released. I think some people need some perspective.

[paddyalexander]

Lets look at how other war games miniture companies handle their prerelease marketing for their products. Privateer Press, Mantic & Spartan Games all release concept art, work in progress pictures and rules information over a period of months to build up the excitement for the product. Lets look at how Privateer Press handled the release of their Collossals book. They produced a video containing some information about the Collossal models, showing the finished models for two of them & artwork for the rest while aslo talking a little about how they work in the game. Later they released more information, both pictures & artwork for the up coming models & previews of their rules in a steady stream, trough their website and in their magazine up untill the book got released.

Privateer Press paced the information so it got steadily released trough offical sources over time and it not only generated hype and maintained the excitement for the product, it allowed players to budget well in advance for what are expensive models.

gwPLCs' current stratagy of secrecy is idiotic, as the only prerelease marketing is based on whatever rumors their comunity can scrounge up. They've chosen to try to eleminate rumors instead of doing the smart thing and take control of it, even in a limited way. Right now there is no promotion being generated for their up comming products (I don't count white dwarfs' lifeless "BUY THIS NOW" dibble a week before a product is released as advertising) or when they try they fail misserbly at it (yet again putting the pre-order date in the "teaser" video with no other info).

Or when Privateer was getting ready to start switching to plas-resin and released teaser pics of the new war jack sculpts?

Actual when they switched to plastic (it is not a styrine based polymer but it is not resin) the first release was the Menoth Bastions. Privateer had intended to first preview the models and gauge what the community tought of the sculpts and level of detail before revealing them to be plastic. There was a portion of their forums at the time that was very vocal about a switch to platic meaning a drastic loss of detail. Unfortunitly a Japanese online store put them up for preorder before the models had officaly been announced, listing them as plastic infantry. The models were very well recieved anyway.

PS. resin type of plastic (actualy a catch all phrase for hundreds of types of plastic), saying that they've switched to a plastic-resin (or varient of that phrase) is the same as saying they've switched to a plastic-plastic. I used to work in plastic casting (used to cast cases for pacemakers out of resin) & it is just something that bugs me.

[Omniassiah]

How many of these game companys are updating existing models? Heres the problem, GW are a business that release models that can last you a lifetime if kept in good condition. However to fund new releases they need to keep selling the old stuff. Now if everyone saw what was comming a few months in advance, lets say for example a new Chaos Space Marine squad, the sales of the old kit would tank as everyone would be saving up for the newer all singing, all dancing kit. The same principle applies to much of the GW range. GW needs the sales of the older kit to fund the new stuff!

First in most cases those kits being replaced are probably drawling down on sales to begin with because even the most die hard fans aren't going to need that many of any one kit. And even if they aren't they should go to a minimalist production schedule if not a zero production schedule up in order to use up existing stocks before the new releases. As has been pointed out before other companies do this already and it works just fine. I mean Car companies do this on a yearly schedule and yet cars are still bought before the new model year comes out. Again because of the combination of stock draw down and deals to move old product.

I agree that it's nice to see new miniatures prior to their release, however for the majority of customers, for whom White Dwarf is the first viewing of new releases, the current strategy is working quite well.
I think it's rather childish to get angry about not being able to see pictures of toy soldiers six months before they're released. I think some people need some perspective.

Well here you really didn't want to use the hyperbole of 6 months, none of us want that. 2 month lead time web article of "hey we just got finished working on this" followed by developer articles on what they were think about in the changes. maybe a hit of a new special rule or two(never the entire statline w/rules), some pictures every week would work well. You do a timed controlled releases of information so that you are constantly giving people new things to talk about in your upcoming releases. Amazingly this is called a marketing campaign something that a marketing department would do in addition to some other really valuable data collections, would be nice if GW had one of those (have been told that they don't and haven't seen anything to prove otherwise).

[f2k]

Using Diablo 3 as your evidence blows your argument out of the water. It was later than late, they didn't let on till the last possible second that single player required you to be connected to the internet and it was in fact nowhere near as good as people hyped it to be and was just an auction house with added game.

If you want GW to do a Blizzard then they'll show you awesome holy sketches of joy, screenshots of beautiful amazing models from the front and then they'll release them without having any actual rear to the models and the rules will suck. Then they'll tell you you need to pop in to your local GW store every week to upgrade them with various weapons.

What does the quality of the product have to do with anything?

Sure, Diablo 3 was a huge disappointment. But then again, it wasn’t nearly as bad as Dreadfleet. A product does not become magically better just because it’s a huge big secret until release.

Also, let’s not forget that Diablo 3 still sold very well. So the long development time and delays didn’t seem to have any impact at all.

How many of these game companys are updating existing models? Heres the problem, GW are a business that release models that can last you a lifetime if kept in good condition. However to fund new releases they need to keep selling the old stuff. Now if everyone saw what was comming a few months in advance, lets say for example a new Chaos Space Marine squad, the sales of the old kit would tank as everyone would be saving up for the newer all singing, all dancing kit. The same principle applies to much of the GW range. GW needs the sales of the older kit to fund the new stuff!

How often does Games Workshop completely update a model? Recutting a sprue to do a stealth price-increase? Sure. Switching to Finecast? Sure. But completely redesign it...?

Privateer Press doesn’t seem to have a problem showcasing the redone boxes well in advance. Yes, there was a bit of grumbling from metal-fans in the beginning but overall it’s been well received. So why is it such a big problem for Games Workshop?

Also, let’s not forget that a well selling kit is unlikely to be redesigned. Why should it? So I don’t think that it would be too unreasonable to assume that in most cases a redesigned model wouldn’t have been selling too well in the first place so why nope hype it a bit? Why not let the customers know that something new and interesting is on the way?