Comissiar and Inquisitors

[TheDungen]

Lo folks, do you think that a commissar seeing a radical inquisitor doing something he believes he shouldn't could do (attempt) a field execution of that inquisitor? I know he would probably be condemning himself to death by doing so but commissars don't really strike me as the type who cares.

[Monospot]

A commissar might very well try, IF whatever act he witnesses is heinous enough. Considering they view themselves as keepers of Imperial purity, seems plausible.

[TheDungen]

say an inquisitor uses a IG regiment and then leaves them to die to pursue his own agenda (dubious agenda, if it was noble the commissiar would gladly die for it). Could a surviving commissar lead his surviving soldiers in pursuit of the inquisitor?

[narrativium]

You mean, assuming the regiment's commanding officer has been killed? (Commissars aren't in the chain of command; they're explicitly parallel to it, so they don't lead unless the CO's lost her nerve.)

It would depend entirely on circumstance. An Imperial Guard unit fights for the Imperium where it's directed; a commissar is a beacon of Imperial purity and morale, keeping them fighting for the Imperium even when they want to run. An Inquisitor's role is to destroy the Imperium's enemies, and he has the absolute authority to give orders to officers of the Guard for the Imperium's defence.

Any Imperial citizen who believed another individual to be tainted has the responsibility to report that taint and the authority to destroy it as soon as possible, but a commissar is probably one of the few qualified to wage such a war, because they have to be very careful to distinguish pursuit of the man, the Inquisitor, from pursuit of the office, the Inquisition, and that requires an amount of savvy and political manipulation. And the Inquisition can't afford to be seen as weak or corrupt; even if the commissar and his Guard regiment are entirely correct and do exactly the right things, their lives might still be forfeit.

[A.T.]

say an inquisitor uses a IG regiment and then leaves them to die...

You'd need something a little more serious, like deliberately sabotaging the imperial war effort or open heresy.

Also depends on how the commissar personally views the inquisitor, and their own level of 'acceptable casualties' - "In Imperium guns more valuable than men who carry them. In Imperium we make bridges out of men to save metal for weapons. You want to fight in shade? Imperium give you plenty of dead men to fight under"

[TheDungen]

He does something that he really shouldn't then throws them into a suicidal attack to get rid of any witnesses. Does that sound plausible?

[MyNameDidntFit]

The Inquisitor leaving a regiment to die? Not an execution. The Inquisitor wouldn't even think to tell the Commissar his or her motives for leaving, let alone care for the Commissar's judgement.


However, most people forget that Commissars are political officers and, if they found the behavior of an Inquisitor to be below the Imperium's standard, would likely have more tactful ways of going about pursuit of such an individual than a bolt round to the heart.

[Scalebug]

It is not in the commisars jurisdiction to field execute anyone he comes across... It is just done to commanders in the Imperial Guard he is supposed to accompany (the navy for commisars attached to that branch). Inquisitors, Adeptus Mechnicus personel, priests, buerocrats, what have you, are not theirs to execute. He has no right to do it.

Even in the guard, he is not going summarily shoot any guardsman not in command, for infractions, though he is likely to make sure the MP/Provosts/equivalents deals with it, and probably will sit in on trials (and floggings/hangings...) conducted in the field.

He is however of course appointed to slay any enemy of the Imperium, although a radical Inquisitor have the right to flash his badge and be in full right to not have a gun pointed at his neck by the commisar.

say an inquisitor uses a IG regiment and then leaves them to die to pursue his own agenda (dubious agenda, if it was noble the commissiar would gladly die for it). Could a surviving commissar lead his surviving soldiers in pursuit of the inquisitor?

He could, but his career and/or life would be finished there. He would be any other murderer, ending up in the penal legions or executed. If it turns out the radical Inquisitor was so far gone he had actually been declared a criminal and or heretic by his peers the poor commisar might be lucky to have these people pull some strings to help him, but it is not a given. Legally, the commisar was wrong.

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

Quite apart from the fact that Imperial Guard units and officers (including commissars) are not at all free to go where they please (rather they go where ordered to) then no, almost certainly not. Now if he can prove that said inquisitor is a heretic then it might be a different matter but Inquisitors are outside the law. It litter ally doesn't apply to them and the commissar have no authority whatsoever over any Inquisitor or his henchmen. Doesn't mean he might not try and bully some of them but in any sort of political/legal confrontation the commissar is almost certainly going to be very badly outclassed.

[Chem-Dog]

If a commissar survives an engagement he wasn't expected to, the fog of war might afford him the time to pursue the Inquisitor, his supposed demise might even give him free reign to effectively leave the conflict entirely in search of the rogue, though you would have to ask what would be the motive for the Commissar effectively deserting, the desire for revenge or the need to bring a renegade to justice?

Otherwise it's the classic Antagonist/Protagonist equation, both will do whatever the story demands, Hero Commissar risks his life in a desperate race to prevent a corrupted Inquisitor from launching his insane doomsday plot- fine. Hero Inquisitor must fight off a crazed Commissar hell bent on personal vengeance- also fine. If you're careful you can do both at the same time.

[El_Machinae]

I don't believe that Commissars have the legal authority to shoot an Inquisitor or those following the Inquisitor's command. In fact, because Inquisitors operate at the 'need to know' level, a Commissar cannot know if an Inquisitor's putative treason/cowardness/heresy is not part of a larger plan.

[TheDungen]

Ok here's the idea as it is now, this veteran regiment have served ten years around the eye, as its last assignment before being allowed to go home they because they've proven to have a high resistance to corruption are stationed to defend a shrine under inquisitorial protection. Their job is quite simple they must not allow anyone entrance into the inner sanctum. All of sudden however an inquisitor shows up and claims that the local governor is corrupted and must be dealt with. The inquisitor charges the guardsmen in the regiment with dethroning the corrupt governor and then leaves because he has more important things to do.
When the regiment tries to carry out the order they find themselves out manned and out gunned and are routed, also there are no signs of corruption in the forces they fight. the last survivors retreat to the shrine only to find that the defence force they left have been murdered and the inner sanctuary have been breached and looted. The commissar think that its to much of a coincidence that they were ordered into their deaths just as the shrine was attacked and concludes that the inquisitor must be responsible. Knowing that the men with him will not go up against the inquisition based on his suspicion he tells them that while going through the shrine he found a survivor that said that the inquisitor was responsible. He also tells them that if they can apprehend the inquisitor and retrieve the stolen artefacts they might be able to clear their names and go home. while he himself knows that the imperium cannot forgive what they have done and the best they can do is redeem their failure in the eyes of the emperor and be allowed to come to him in death. He knows he cannot save the lives of his men but he might be able to save their souls by lying to them. and so they set out to hunt down the inquisitor.


so what do you think? There is no real good guy or bad guy, so i feels very wh40k. oh and its meant as background for a imperial guard veteran warband for inquisitor.

[Scalebug]

Sounds like a perfectly good background to me, setting them up to fight puritan Imperial forces as they have essentially gone rouge, (and even if they had not, the radical Inquisitor could likely still call on people to chase them), ally with other Inquisitors that suspect the radical is up to no good, fight actual renegades and heretics, etc.

[Scammel]

I don't believe that Commissars have the legal authority to shoot an Inquisitor or those following the Inquisitor's command. In fact, because Inquisitors operate at the 'need to know' level, a Commissar cannot know if an Inquisitor's putative treason/cowardness/heresy is not part of a larger plan.

AFAIK a Commissar's status as a formal executioner only extends to the Guard chain of command and probably only up to a certain rank apart from in the most exceptional of circumstances, though of course as an agent of the Imperium I imagine any that are influential/famous/powerful enough can also do away with ordinary citizenry. A Commissar is almost certainly not legally entitled to go after Inquisitors, who are theoretically a step down from only the Emperor himself, kinda like the Marines.

[TheDungen]

yeah except a commissar is brainwashed since birth to do what is best for the imperium no matter personal cost. They don't have the official authority that the inquisition have but they're just as uncompromising.

Sounds like a perfectly good background to me, setting them up to fight puritan Imperial forces as they have essentially gone rouge, (and even if they had not, the radical Inquisitor could likely still call on people to chase them), ally with other Inquisitors that suspect the radical is up to no good, fight actual renegades and heretics, etc.

Except the Commissar might actually be a nutter and the inquisitor innocent. of course "there is no such thing as innocence only degrees of guilt" and another inquisitor may use the comissiar allegations as an excuse to get rid of a rival no matter if he actually believes the commissar or not.

[Stonerhino]

I would drop the Commissiar for just some Imperial commander, maybe even a junior commander who takes up the reins to command the survivers. With the help of a grizzled old Sgt.

The officer has no friends to turn to but must somehow avenge his comrades and clear his unit's name. By bringing the out of control Inquisitor to justice. While recovering the stolen relic.

If this is for a story have the ending be Kill the Inquisitor, recover the relic only to turn around and be executed by the unit's former Commissair. Who has been one step behind the "Commander", trying to execute him for fleeing the battle in the first place. Who then proceeds to return the relic and restores the unit's honor.

[insectum7]

say an inquisitor uses a IG regiment and then leaves them to die to pursue his own agenda (dubious agenda, if it was noble the commissiar would gladly die for it). Could a surviving commissar lead his surviving soldiers in pursuit of the inquisitor?

That's a pretty awesome setup if you ask me. I have a little trouble with the notion that troops are loyal to a Commissar, since Commissars are mostly feared. But I really like the idea of it. There's also the precedent of Commissar Yarrick as heroic leader, so that's a pretty solid background.

If I was going about it, in order to get around the Commissars reputation of "rule by fear", I might use your basic setup (in your later post) and really, really play up the relationship between the Regimental Comander, Regimental Commissar and the troops. For example, the TWO characters, the commander and the commissar, have been the driving forces behind the regiment. The commander is the one the men are really loyal to, while the Commissar has mostly been seen as a hard***, but necessary and just, adjuctant to the commander. When the Inquisitor sets the guard unit up, through betrayal or incompetence, many guard die, and the beloved commander dies. At which point the regiment is torn apart. The Commissar, who winds up being the only one with knowledge to suspect the Inquisitor, rallies the men behind revenge for their comrades and in the memory of their former commander, whom the men nearly worship. So the men aren't quite loyal to the commissar at first, their mostly loyal to the memory of their commander. The Commissar himself can use that loyalty at first, but eventually has to struggle to replace him, and gain the men's loyalty himself.

[flota]

There is Cain too, not the greatest example but there is it
He leads by being in "good terms" with his troops and they even care for him because of that
He knows the way politics works, and uses his influence when his authority ends

Sent from Holy Terra using CM10 by epinter for Atrix

[MyNameDidntFit]

The main problem with this is in the form of transport. The Inquisitor has the unquestionable right to make use of whatever resources--military, Inquisitorial, civilian or personal--to go where he pleases, as he pleases. The Commissar and the deserters, however, would have to beg, steal and sneak their way through Navy security, planetary security, and likely MP pursuit.

If you can find a believable way to give the Commissar and his troupe access to transportation, then you have a plot. Until then, you're stuck at square one, IMO.

[ryng_sting]

Xanthite Inquisitors are usually sensible enough to make sure no one's looking when they're up to something extreme (summoning daemons, say).

If they're not, or if they get rumbled, however, the Commissar will shoot them without a moment's hesitation.