Saim-Hann: flexible eldar paths?

[CrystalSphere]

Iīm not very familiar with 40k background, and while reading about each one of the eldar craftworlds something hit me. The craftworld Saim-Hann is renowned for being the oddball among the other craftworlds, because their customs are seen as more "wild and barbaric". Also it is noted that the eldar paths on Saim-Hann are less strict that on your average craftworld, and their culture has several similarities with that of the exodites.

The part that left me wondering is the whole less strict eldar path. For starters i donīt know for sure just how strict the eldar path is on a normal craftworld, so i canīt imagine what it means when it says that it is less strict. As far as i know, when a eldar is on a path (say, warrior path), he isnīt allowed to do anything else but focus on that, until he is finished. If he dabbles on something else, he would be breaking the rules, right? So does that means that the eldar of Saim-Hann can mix and match their paths to a degree? How would the paths be more flexible (with specific examples) if the whole concept is to restrict yourself to one path?

Finally, this piece of fluff left me wondering the validity of the eldar paths at all. If Saim-Hann can get away having a more flexible path system (with no big drawbacks, or else it would be at least referenced), then the question arises as to whenever the paths are necessary only to a point, and they donīt need to be as strict as most craftworlds enforce. Therefore it would be more a choice to be strict (as in, they think the hardcore discipline is good) rather than a necessity.

[Lord Squidar]

Not sure on how the paths are less restrictive, but we have a good example of a very restrictive method of the path in Alaitoc and the path series. Alaitoc is very strict to the path and they even mention that there is a punishment available which is a labotomy of the part of the eldar brain that generates psychic ability, so being cut off from the craftworld and doomed to live in it. I am guessing that a normal craftworld would have some less strict punishment and Saim Haim have no punishment at all.

You should wait for Eldargal or Hendarion to post a reply, they are the eldar experts

[Poseidal]

I think there's some level of flexibility with most craftworlds, with Alaitoc being more strict on one end.

The difference with Saim-Hann is they follow a kind of ancient-Eldar tribal pattern, which probably predates the Dark Eldar (in the sort of Eldar the led to the fall). They probably have competitions to steal space-cows from each other in the craftworld and things like that.

[Hendarion]

Hehe, I didn't know I got such a reputation, Lord Squidar, but thanks. However, on the topic... umn... I dunno. Paths are meant to make an Eldar focus on something and keep his/her dark desires under control. The only way that would make sense is that on Saim-Hann they don't care as much about that as others. Maybe they are more brutal in combat, maybe they still focus, but don't punish ppl who do other stuff aswell - you know, like as if in a company where all work on a PC with internet chatting and reading forums is prohibited (Alaitoc), you'll still find all employees doing it and that it is well known that all do it (Saim-Hann). Just that chatting and reading forums isn't the issue with Eldar ofc, but whatever stuff they normally have to hide - cruelty, savagery, desires, debauchery.

Hmm.

I would imagine it like serving on the "Black Pearl" of "Pirates of the Caribbean", still all are pirates, but kinda civilised pirates. The Royal Navy being Alaitoc, The Flying Dutchman being Corsairs and Outcasts.

But really, this is just my own interpretation, there is no official source of fluff this time I would be able to reference.

[Idaan]

For starters i donīt know for sure just how strict the eldar path is on a normal craftworld, so i canīt imagine what it means when it says that it is less strict. As far as i know, when a eldar is on a path (say, warrior path), he isnīt allowed to do anything else but focus on that, until he is finished. If he dabbles on something else, he would be breaking the rules, right?

No, not really:

When an Eldar becomes an Aspect Warrior he does not cease to utilise the facets of his character which he has already developed through his progress along the Eldar Path. Indeed, he deliberately continues to pursue the arts of peace, and will typically keep on practicing and perfecting his own artistic talents. Thus Aspect Warriors form a community of practising artists, poets, orators, dancers, and musicians. This is a strong contrast between their role as fighting warriors, as indeed it is meant to be.

That's probably just the most pronounced example, but on all Paths the Eldar will have side activities to avoid getting lost in the single-minded pursuit of whatever their main course is.

[Poseidal]

The important lesson is where they can put that part of their person down and not let it become dominant. I would expect Saim-Hann would have family matters to tend to when not mastering the Path.

[BooTMGSG]

I would interpret Saim-Hann as a halfway house between the exodite and the craftworld.
The Exodite, could be best described as the Amish of the Eldar world. Sure they have Psykic powers, but rather than rely on it they like to work by their own hand. Grow their own food, and raise their own barns instead of decadently relying on their ultra high tech.

The craft world path system is one of specialisation, every eldar has thier place as a cog in the the machine. They may shift which cog they wish to be, but they play their role to the letter once they have accepted it.

These are the two extremes, so where would Saim-Hann sit. Well, i'd say that while there is likely to be a path of service, those not on that path would probably still be a little self suficent and do some of the work themselves. Path of the Warrior, would provide the elite, but all would be prepared to defend themselves without too much fuss. They would tread along the specific paths and learn what they could, but they would not narrow their vision so far that they could not function without the other paths.

[CrystalSphere]

Thank you all for your insight on the matter.

@Hendarion, i like the analogy you made, as in: in Alaitoc, no one is allowed to distract himself/herself from the path, while on Saim-Hann, it is allowed to have your leisure time (doing other things not related to the path) but with a certain limit, i would imagine. If there were no limits, then having the paths donīt make sense.

@Idaan, i think you hit the crux of the question, at least as far as my opinion goes. The quote you referenced says that the eldar aspect warriors may practice non-path skills in their leisure time, as long as these skills were practiced before with a path. So to put an example, in order for one aspect warrior to play the violin, he must have previously went on the music/artist path, correct? It could be comparable to how kids behave (yeah iīm calling the eldar little kids), they lack the mental discipline to put down an activitiy they like a lot, in order to do another one which is necessary for them. The kid playing with his toys (or videogames) is enjoying it a lot, but you canīt allow him to play as much as he likes (without control), otherwise he would neglect other important aspects that he needs to practice too, like studying in order to learn.

@ BooTMGSG, i think youīre correct, or at least what you say is likely what the creators of the craftworld intended, to be inbetween exodites and craftworld eldar. What i find a lack of explanation is to an objective way to define the "protection agaisnt slaanesh" methods. So we know dark eldar are doomed but they donīt care, craftworlders use the path system, and the exodites hard work, ot at least that is what i understood of readig the codex.

But what makes an eldar be in slaanesh sphere? Letīs say that one aspect warrior has some leisure time, and he decides to spend it painting, but he never went on any artistic path before, this gives him pleasure and he enjoys painting, so would he be at risk of falling into slaanesh grasp?. I donīt think this is likely. We haven then the eldar outcasts, who donīt follow any paths, and when they interact with other eldars they are (apparently) sane, so donīt following a path doesnīt make them automatically slaanesh puppets.

This is what makes me think that the paths, like Saim-Hann shows, are more of a extra wall of security, rather than an absolute necessity. Iīm going to make a comparison to WH Fantasy, which i am more familiar with, but i think it could be applicable to the imperium in 40k as well. In the empire, witch hunters look for the corruption of chaos by any means necessary, they are very zealous about it and usually end up burning innocents if only to be safe. They are usually right, as chaos worshippers are damn difficult to spot. They take the safest route, but it is also the harshest, as innocents are bound to be killed sometimes.

The craftworld eldar would be like the witchunters, after seeing the horrors of the fall, they are so committed to purging any influence of chaos of their society, that they go the extra mile to make sure it is done. In this case there arenīt innocents being killed, what they do is to severely limit the personal freedom of each eldar, through the path system, so they are guiding them to avoid the risk of having them go nuts. In this context, the Saim-Hann eldar would have a less hardcore system. They say: "we want to avoid the influence of chaos, but not at the cost of our personal freedoms, so we arenīt going to enforce such a harsh path system". This is good for them, as long as it works. Like in the empire, if you ignore the innocent bystander for too long, it may turn out that in the end he was after all a chaos worshipper, but you were lenient and didnīt spot him because of that.

I think Saim-Hann (and the outcasts eldar) need to have some examples (i donīt know if there is any) of some of them falling into slaanesh or at least going mad, to show the risks of what happens when an eldar (the kid) is left to enjoy one activity without control. If there is no drawback at all, then Saim-Hann looks kind of Mary Sue in my eyes, enjoying the benefits of everything but none of the problems. The exodites already have a big drawback (lack of advanced technology), and we can imagine them having a pre-industrial lifestyle that forces their mind out of thinking too much or coming up with fun ways to pass the time. The dark eldar enjoy everything they want without limits, but they are full into slaanesh grasp, so they are doomed. So they have all their up and downs, and the only ones without flaws should be imo the pre-fall eldar, the current eldar should be flawed, presenting each one part of what were the ancient eldar, and what made them so powerful.

[Hendarion]

So to put an example, in order for one aspect warrior to play the violin, he must have previously went on the music/artist path, correct? It could be comparable to how kids behave (yeah iīm calling the eldar little kids), they lack the mental discipline to put down an activitiy they like a lot, in order to do another one which is necessary for them. The kid playing with his toys (or videogames) is enjoying it a lot, but you canīt allow him to play as much as he likes (without control), otherwise he would neglect other important aspects that he needs to practice too, like studying in order to learn.

Actually it is the other way round: An Eldar wants to experience *everything* to the extreme and everything at once. I don't know if you watch Futurama, there was an episode with Bender turning to human - smoking, drinking, dancing, eating and puking at the same time, enjoying everything of it. That's an Eldar without focus and without path - a chaotic psycho. Paths force them to focus on one thing and learn how to perform it within proper boundaries, keeping the darker urges inside of them.

[Rogue Star]

Always liked the idea Saim-Hann's reputation came from a closer association with the Exodites than other Craftworlds, myself. It's just something I don't think GW explored, and FW only dipped it's toe into with Mymeara - the Craftworlds didn't leave together, or head in the same direction, etc. Some loaded up and left likely much more swiftly, others lingered for the last few refugees, a lot would have fled into the Webway, and emerged in real space as strands and spars of that sub-dimension collapsed with the psychic shockwave, at wildly different times and places.

[BooTMGSG]

Actually it is the other way round: An Eldar wants to experience *everything* to the extreme and everything at once. I don't know if you watch Futurama, there was an episode with Bender turning to human - smoking, drinking, dancing, eating and puking at the same time, enjoying everything of it.

You watched it, You can't unwatch it!

I thinkt the Path system is as much about protecting Eldar Society as a whole as it is about protecting the individual.

Consider for a moment the Exarchs. These individuals are viewed as failures, and while thier place in eldar society is acknowledge, it is also viewed as not the done thing.
Now who are the Exarchs, they are the exeptional, the pro-athelete. The concert violinist. The Master artist. They have trained to excess, poured time and time into their one profession. Now in isolated cases it can be managed, and the fact that it is frowned upon means that these people arn't being heeped with praise, and so their colosal ego is not being pumped into over drive. You also limit the one up manship that would occur is their was a society of exarchs.

Eventually you would run into the Lady Gaga problem.
You've worn a suit of meat, got some attention, but its no longer shocking, its now what you are known for whats next?
You've given birth to yourself, got some attention, but now yawn, whats next?
You've kidnapped the local governers familiy and had them scupted into an exquisit dining table and chair set, and are now having tea with four of your clones. Its fun for a while, but it now seems so staid and boring, Whats next?

[Hendarion]

The last paragraph is the most important. That's how Dark Eldar are. Exarchs on the other hand are lost, but still focused on one path. They aren't psychos. They won't sculpt the governor's family into a table. They just can't live normally anymore, they are lost on their path and thus considered tainted. Totally different than a fully unleashed Eldar mind though.

[BooTMGSG]

True the exarchs are bound by the definition of their path, so the scope of their excess is limited.
The point I was trying to make with the Path system, is that the exarchs arn't elevated in Eldar society. They are not the celebreties, and so there is not the critical mass of Eldar citizens willing these Exarchs on to greater fame and renown. The path system makes this sort of thing a Taboo, and so as well as protecting the individual from Slanesh, it also protects the craftworld as a whole, from being swepted into decedance.