Orks and Daemons permanent alliance Themed army idea-- Advice and thoughts

[Desalbert]

Hey all, I've just come to a potentially eureka moment in my 40k thought process: An Ork army with Daemon allies.

For me, this works on a dual level because I love religious motifs (daemons) and I would like to maximize the 'tribal spirituality' of the Orks.

On a gaming level, I think the army would likely be great fun to play against as it offers a maximization of the zany randomness that I love (and I think opponents would probably enjoy).

However, I'm not a great converter nor am I in-the-know on all aspects of fluff. However, my main concern here in this post is a discussion about whether you feel this pairing is believable (fluff wise) or if it feels like a poor shoe-in attempt.

Here's how I imagine the army going, and here's where I could also use detailed advice:

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The Force will be Ork Centric, of course. With a small (mostly permanent) side alliance of Daemons including a Herald, 2 troop choices and a soul grinder (more details in a sec)

It will be lead by a Weirdboy. Whether or not that makes it competitive I could not care less about but it seems a requirement for the idea. He will be the reason this has all come together. He's the fluff lynch-pin. (Not that it's of-consequence, but I've tossed around the idea of naming him Emprah Pulpaton (as an homage to a great starwars character, and because, the hope is, he'll "Pulp" a tonne of enemies; however, would you choose a different title to maximize the religious quality of the army? Perhaps Prophet, etc? ). I'd like the Weirdboy to remain the Warlord, but I also would like to include a Shokk attack gun, so that causes a few problems with the Weirdb

In the event that it includes a Mekboy with a Shokk attack gun (the Gun seems to harness the warp on occassion so it seems a fair idea), it will likely include 2 Weirdboyz, but then I lose the flavour of a force lead by Emprah Palpaton (so perhaps no shokk gun most of the time).


Otherwise, beyond this, it will likely be a normal Ork army.

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Now, what about the Daemons?

Here's my first thought: I feel like Nurgle models are most "Orky" and I honestly love the models of the new (chubby) Nurgle Chaos Lord with the axe, the new plague bearers, and the good'ol Great Unclean one. These feel Orky to me. They are awesome.

So my first thought is to go with the Nurgle Lord with the two handed axe as a Herald
Then field two squads of plague bearers

and a soul-grinder painted all Hulk-ish Orky Green while decorated in a a number of Ork Glyphs.... (I might even paint some purple on his lower half just as an homage to the awesome Incredible Hulk --love my pop-culture references.

I'd eventually pick up a Great Unclean One and get him some big ol' tusk bits to add a bit of Orkiness to him, but that's about all.

I'll also be converting Beasts of Nurgle from the Warhammer River Trolls pack, and I think I will paint up some bases of warhammer snotlings as nurglings


So that's the idea.

This portion brings up a few questions though: A) Is it okay to field this as a permanent alliance but not do any conversion/disease work on the Orks? I'd rather not. Perhaps at most, the Ork Vehicles will be crusty and rusty, but beyond that, nadda.

B) Is it far more Orky to run the Daemons as Khorne? Two squads of 'letters perhaps and a herald on a juggy perhaps? And following that, can I get away with painting the Khorne Daemons green? I DO know that the form of Daemons shifts based on who is viewing them, so I thought maybe Green skin wouldn't be so hard to justify for them.

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Anyway, that's all. I know this is a huge ramble but I literally just had this 'epiphany' and would love any insight, advice etc.

If you think it's lame, go ahead and say so, that's part of the idea-building process.


Thanks guys

[Wishing]

I've also got an ork army that I am planning to add the new plaguebearers to, so I think it's a sterling idea. Both khornate orks and nurgle orks are very traditional I feel. I wish there were more orky chaos cults in the fluff. I do think that an army like this will look much better if you paint some disease and do some daemon head swaps on some of the orks to chaosify them a bit. To strengthen the theme, you know.

[Lord Damocles]

B) Is it far more Orky to run the Daemons as Khorne?

One of the plot hooks from Codex: Daemonhunters was a force of Orks which had mistaken a Great Unclean One for Gork (or Mork).

Adrian Wood even made a Chaos Ork force based on the idea.

[Tebrey]

I think the old Cult of Speed was a Khorne Ork army in RT or 2nd. Also chaos used to get Ork Freebooters in it's rulebook.

Sounds fun to play with and against.

[Chem-Dog]

However, my main concern here in this post is a discussion about whether you feel this pairing is believable (fluff wise) or if it feels like a poor shoe-in attempt.

It's actually a good match. Orks have been the unwitting pawns, hireling mercenaries and possessed followers of various chaos groups before now. There's no reason why Orks wouldn't be able to call upon Daemonic forces (though they might think of them as something different) and there's certainly plenty of reasons why a Damon or two might find themselves trailing a particularly charismatic (hitty) Ork Warboss or other figurehead.

It will be lead by a Weirdboy..... would you choose a different title to maximize the religious quality of the army? Perhaps Prophet, etc?.... I'd like the Weirdboy to remain the Warlord, but I also would like to include a Shokk attack gun, so that causes a few problems.

Though titles like Prophet (Ghazkull is a Prophet, don't forget), emissary, herald, are suitably grandiose and full of gravitas, they ain't all that Orky, the race whose most holy enterprise is called a WAAAAGH!
Is the Ork a thrall of Daemons or has it made Daemons it's servants (by some weird quirk of the Ork mind, or perhaps a constructed or looted artefact, Ghazkull's "Prophet" status occurred after he had a large portion of his skull replaced suggesting that this was the cause of his new found purpose)? Is he possessed? These might suggest the direction you go with the naming, a Daemon in Ork guise might be inclined to use a comparatively pompous title (not too much, or the Boyz won't understand it) and an Ork with special abilities would use more standard Ork naming conventions.

On the issue of including a Shokk Attak Gun, I don't see why including one is an issue, you are allowed two HQ slots.

Here's my first thought: I feel like Nurgle models are most "Orky"

Fair enough the LatD army list in the EoT Codex did show some Nurgle infested Orks.

This portion brings up a few questions though: A) Is it okay to field this as a permanent alliance but not do any conversion/disease work on the Orks? I'd rather not. Perhaps at most, the Ork Vehicles will be crusty and rusty, but beyond that, nadda.

B) Is it far more Orky to run the Daemons as Khorne? Two squads of 'letters perhaps and a herald on a juggy perhaps? And following that, can I get away with painting the Khorne Daemons green? I DO know that the form of Daemons shifts based on who is viewing them, so I thought maybe Green skin wouldn't be so hard to justify for them.

A) Your models, your choice, but I would be incredibly excited my the idea of Nuglifying my Orks if I were you.

B) Back when Khorne was more Martial than RArrrrrrrrrrrrr, Orks had "Khorne Stormboyz" they were the ultimate rebels of Ork society, loving nothing more than drill and dicipline. Since then Khorne has been loosely associated with the Orks by virtue of the fact Orks are fighty and Khorne likes fighty. But no, none of the Gods are any more or less fitting than any of the others. And it's still up to you what colour you paint your models. I would be inclined to include a lot of tattoos and body-paint on the Orks to tie them in with more traditionally painted Daemons if you're going with Khorne, it's less of an issue with Nurgle but I would still be marking my Orks with the Mark of the chosen patron.[/QUOTE]

[Grubnar]

If orkz were to allie with ANY chaos god it would be Khorne (maybe Nurgle).
Stormboys of Khorne have already been mentioned, but I also remember reading (although I can not remember where) about Khorne drawing power from the orks. The orks are the most populous (or second most populous, after humans) of all the races inhapiting the galaxy, and they are even more warlike than the humans. This has had great influence on Khorne, and so it is said that he has certain features that resemble that of an ork, for example big tusks.

If you chose to "khornate" your orks, you do not need to do so with every model. And so it would be easy to paint on the symbol of Khorne on every 8th bou, for example, or have some removable banners, or vehicle markings.

[Scribe of Khorne]

I think Orks + Nurgle is a great fit. The Ork vehicles are already a mess, breaking down and running on little more then belief so its all good there. You can theme them to fit a Khorne mindset as well (Stormboyz, Red Vehicles etc) or you can go Orks + Tzeentch which I'll be doing, as the CSM/Daemons are just pulling the Orks strings.

[Desalbert]

Thanks for the great responses guys-- I'm still heavily leaning towards Nurgle as my allied contingent...and I'm looking to continue to at least intellectually persue this idea before I make a full commitment (IE try my hand at some fluff and learn more about some things as well) so part of what I'm wondering is how to paint rust. Rust is going to have to be a major component in my paintings of Ork machinery afterall. Any simple tips? How about advanced ones? Paint-colours of choice etc?

Also, can anyone let me know how the new Nurglings are packaged? Is there room in the new kits to pull some away for other uses than the swarm base and still have enough for the base itself? I'd love to populate my Ork force with random nurgling sightings... Hanging off a Looted tank barrel or dancing on the base of my wierdboy etc etc.

[Aryllon]

Awesome idea - but I think green bloodletters would be both amazing and fluffy (seen by orks, the best fighters are of course green -as is their blood).

Nurgle would also be cool. There must be a way to proxy squigs for nurgle daemons somehow. Nurgling as attack squig? Colossal squig as daemon prince?! Any way to 'arm' Nurglings to make bomb squigs? Squigs as spawn etc?

Love the river troll idea, but if it becomes too difficult just swap in a plague toad as a beast.

Not too bothered about putting chaos icons anywhere, fairly sure orks don't care enough!
You could also do an ork riding a defiler as a looted wagon (maybe swap the torso for a deff dred?!).

[Lord Squidar]

Hm when I started reading your post an idea formlated in my mind, but you guys took it in a different direction.

Since you wanted to highlight the more spiritual nature of the orks, I was thinking of the snakebites. They have a ritualistic element to them, plus since they spurn technology they are close to the true fighting, and thus gork, or is it mork. You get the picture.

Now to combine this with the snakebites, daemons and Nurgly stuff... Have the band start off as regular old snakebikes stranded on a planet after a waagh goes wrong. They want to get some new boyz for their next waagh, and train them up. During the snake bite ritual, they use a local snake, whos venom proves too strong for them. Hundreds of boyz are in danger of dying, when some big green fat rotten dude (que great unclean one) offers them a way to make sure the snakebite is not lethal, and a way off planet into the next warzone, i.e. through a warp portal. Green is best and so they do this in exchange for the already dying boyz (Nurgle gets what he wants) and the lads go off to war and get what they want. Some of them might smell more funky than before, but its all good if you can still chop things. Plus they have bought more extra magic snakes with them to make sure the next batch of boyz is dead ard like the rest of them.

So some units would be orks with daemonic influence, while others daemons with ork influence, and some blur the lines like your weird boy. You can even get creative and use monsters instead of trukks and plague them up, like a plagued up rhinox brimming with plague boyz would be awesome.

Just my 2 cents.

[Spoik]

Nurgle is the God of entropy and decay. To give oneself to Papa Nurgle is to accept the inevitability of everything that seems great and mighty falling to rot and ruin in the fullness of time.

If we think of Orks as a destructive force of nature, which seems reasonable enough,then that fits right in, philosophically. Perhaps Pulpaton as a traditionalist Snakebite, who values the Old Ways of nomadic wanderings, and will tear down the transient trappings of civilisation that get in their way.

After all, cities will crumble,empires will fall, but Orkiness is forever.

PS Ork blood is red (or red-ish), I believe.

[Desalbert]

Since you wanted to highlight the more spiritual nature of the orks, I was thinking of the snakebites. They have a ritualistic element to them, plus since they spurn technology they are close to the true fighting, and thus gork, or is it mork. You get the picture.

Ah! Snakebites! That's an interesting direction I may not normally have considered-- I like Vehicles though, and I'd like to stick to rusting/slimey mechanics more than beasts, so I may not *ultimately* go there. But, it's a great thought

[Sexiest_hero]

No love for slaanesh Orks? The need for Orks to go faster, the thrill of a good fight, the need to do more, bigger better, go over the top. Heck the Ork codex says orks have very addictive personalities. And who better than slaanesh to act on them?

[Wishing]

Ah! Snakebites! That's an interesting direction I may not normally have considered-- I like Vehicles though, and I'd like to stick to rusting/slimey mechanics more than beasts, so I may not *ultimately* go there. But, it's a great thought

My nurgle orks are snakebite-inspired too.

[Dryaktylus]

In the Freebooterz book there was a possessed Warphead - an accident for both parties, as the daemon was imprisoned and the Warphead had another mind in his head. So just assume the Warphead is possessed by a Great Unclean One who still attracts his minions (i.e. lesser daemons) to come out of the Warp. I suppose a Weirdboy with the might to summon some nasty rottin' boyz will have a better standing in Ork society as his usually exploited brothers. You could field Zogwort as the Warphead, using Nurglings to represent the vipers, who turns opponents into zombies (or "gifts" them with some degenerative plagues).

[dangerboyjim]

Just a thought, but the Orc Rogue Idol from Forgeworld would make a good greater deamon - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamme...OGUE_IDOL.html

The weird boy has summoned the living emodiment of the WAAAAARGH!

[Desalbert]

No love for slaanesh Orks? The need for Orks to go faster, the thrill of a good fight, the need to do more, bigger better, go over the top. Heck the Ork codex says orks have very addictive personalities. And who better than slaanesh to act on them?

That is a VERY good argument for Slaanesh Orks, I'll give you that. I'm not sure why there's seemingly been "no love" for them. But Perhaps it's that at the end of the day a Daemons/Ork pairing is a bit touchy to begin with, and Tzeentch and Slaanesh are seen to perhaps be "Too cunning/dexterous/indirect" for Orks or some such. But, I tip my cap to your suggestion.

In the Freebooterz book there was a possessed Warphead - an accident for both parties, as the daemon was imprisoned and the Warphead had another mind in his head. So just assume the Warphead is possessed by a Great Unclean One who still attracts his minions (i.e. lesser daemons) to come out of the Warp. I suppose a Weirdboy with the might to summon some nasty rottin' boyz will have a better standing in Ork society as his usually exploited brothers. You could field Zogwort as the Warphead, using Nurglings to represent the vipers, who turns opponents into zombies (or "gifts" them with some degenerative plagues).

I tend to stay away from special characters in any sense, but you've got a really fine suggestion here. Always thought the concept of a nest of vipers was a bit odd, but this gives it a lot of legitimacy when placed in the Nurgle context, IMO.

Just a thought, but the Orc Rogue Idol from Forgeworld would make a good greater deamon - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamme...OGUE_IDOL.html
The weird boy has summoned the living emodiment of the WAAAAARGH!

That IS really awesome. No denyin'! I'd love to see that thing all slimey and nurglified to see how it comes out


On another note:
I'm still waffling in my mind as to whether the whole idea is more feasible with Khorne as the God (since the Ork 'dex so often, of course, discusses battle-- much like Khorne). I'm still leaning towards Nurgle big time for all the reasons I said first and a few more since then. But Khorne is still making me double-think.

[club_death]

If you go with khorne, paint-wise, even just red war paint would work? A couple of 'blessed' ork nobz. A suggestion

[Sithlord]

hahaha, if you want, play epidemius Plus all nurlge units, ork allies with 30 grotz plus big mek without upgrade, epidemius come, use cloud of flies to kill the grotz to claim the tallies (allies of convenience count as enemies)

[Desalbert]

hahaha, if you want, play epidemius Plus all nurlge units, ork allies with 30 grotz plus big mek without upgrade, epidemius come, use cloud of flies to kill the grotz to claim the tallies (allies of convenience count as enemies)

Yeah just to clarify, I'm not interested in this approach. Read the article on BoLS, like you, but I'm more after the thematic side of it, and frankly am not too concerned as to whether or not the force is powerful. I won't be including Epidemus at all, for the record. This rag tag band of Orks is far below his (or any other special character's) interest.