What doesn't make any sense in your codex?

[Konovalev]

Mephistons story is worse than Draigos...

at least Draigo used a sword, Mephiston just walked around naked killing things with his bare hands...

[Max_Killfactor]

Makes sense to me. Perhaps they need to change the other Phoenix Lords to match the Fallen Phoenix.

If you are going strictly by fluff, sure. But when strict adherence to fluff means units don't see the table, then I think there are problems.

Maybe I'd be okay with the rule if Drazhar brought more to his unit than complete overkill against units they already have no problem handling. To me, it seems Drazhar's restrictions were more of an afterthought or at least poorly thought out. I suppose in 5th edition he wasn't quite as terrible for his unit since Incubi could still kill termies. He'd probably sway combat against SS termies in the incubi's favor.

But I still feel Drazhar in 6th edition fits the title of this thread. Which is a shame, because as an individual, he got better under 6th editions rules (or at least relatively better since a lot of assault units got worse). Armor save of 2+, eternal warrior, FNP (via pain token), and AP2 weapons striking at I7. Nasty.

[Still Standing]

I shouldn't worry about it, I have 5 HQ choices (Retinue, Priest, Confessor, the named Priest, and the named Confessor) that are now useless in my Codex, and only 1 useful one (Saint Celestine). There is one maybe useful one - Canoness.

[Thud]

The Sanguinor - Character killer extraordinaire! Has special rules to single out and kill dead an enemy IC. Super good, non? 275 points and AP3 in close combat. Awesome.

[Fear Ghoul]

Astorath executes the Death Company who survive battle in every Blood Angels successor Chapter how exactly?

Chops their heads off with his axe.. im sure its stated in the book.

You missed my point entirely. Astorath is executioner of the Death Company for EVERY Blood Angels successor chapter spread throughout the entire galaxy.

Death Company are a dedicated assault unit yet they lost Rending and gained Relentless which makes them better at shooting.

and to an extent better in CC, if they survive getting shot at with over watch or fail to make a charge they will have a chance to rapidfire next turn, or just shoot their bolters and still assault

I was referring to their assault output solely, and not whatever they can shoot during the shooting phase. Or maybe we should remove Furious Charge from Khorne Berserkers and give them relentless and bolters. Let's see how well down that goes...

Psychic Furioso with Wings of Sanguinius.

So? It's a Librarian interned into a dreadnought.. yes its broken game wise, but fluff wise it makes sense.

You honestly think it makes sense that a Librarian can exert the psychic will to lift a several tonne warmachine dozens of feet into the air and land it safely, and somehow not be able to do this at any other point in his career? I don't ever remember my Librarians lifting Leman Russes off the ground with his mind.

Librarians who succumb to the Black Rage are executed for the safety of their brother Marines, so why did they make an exception for Mephiston/Calistarius?

Mephy fell to the rage while trapped under rubble.. yet cured himself by the time he was freed.. one of the very few BA's to ever do that.. and i have no clue who the other one is.. but probably the same or similar happened

Calistarius succumbed to the Black Rage on Armageddon and was inducted to the Death Company. During a battle for some chapel (?) the roof collapsed and he was buried alive, upon which point he also fell victim to the Red Thirst. Over seven days and seven nights he fought both with his mind alone and on the seventh day he burst from his tomb and was reborn Mephiston. This story (from 2nd edition onwards) is completely at odds with the idea that Librarians which fall to the Black Rage are swiftly executed lest they endanger the Chapter with their rogue powers (5th edition). Under the new version Calistarius should also have been executed.

I believe someone else mentioned the retardation of having BS3 Scouts with several campaigns of experience vs BS4 Guard Veterans.

Just deal with it.. they wound on a 4+ rend on a 6 (ignoring armour not ap3) can take out AV12 with a lucky shot (for a str 3 gun that is pretty awesome) get
+1 to coversaves and can infiltrate to anywhere on the board pretty much.. and you complain about bs3.

Do you even understand the topic of this thread? The whole point is that BS3 Scouts that are as seasoned as BS4 Imperial Guard Veterans makes no sense. So no I won't get over it actually, and maybe you should troll less.

Chainswords have no AP value despite quite obviously being able to tear through flak jackets in the background.

game balance.. if a chainsword is ap5/6 then orks would have no chance, and orks are a big seller.. why would they jeopardize that?

I'll remember that next time I try to chainsaw someone in Gears of War: "I'm sorry Mr Locust I didn't realize you were wearing clothes, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered trying to saw you in half."

Poison is equally effective against everything that can be poisoned.

balance again.. its too complicated or unfair if you can only wound a SM on 6's because they are immune to poison or close to it.

Balance has nothing to do with this issue. This is all about laziness from a company that makes nearly everything in the Space Marine codex cost multiples of 5 so that it's easier to count for little Timmy.

Snap shots unfairly penalizes low volume high quality shooting.

try running with a lascannon (the thing that looks huge even compared to a SM) and shoot an accurate shot?

Try answering the following question: "Which of the following two would be fire at a charging enemy most accurately? Is it a) a Pheonix Lord or b) a Termagant? Sorry, trick question, they're both as accurate as each other at shooting when being charged."

Extra armour doesn't actually increase the AV value or hull points.

I think this will be changed in this edition. either with an exta HP or negates the first glance

It wasn't changed in the main rulebook, so there's no reason to believe it will be in the codices.

Hive Guard don't require LOS unlike every other missile launcher in the galaxy.

they shoot tiny tyranids that seek out their prey using pheromones and other tricks of the trade.. i'll forgive the need of LoS for them

How is that effectively any different from a heat-seeking missile, which our world has had for several decades but which eludes the best and brightest of the Eldar and Imperial scientific community? Robin Cruddace only gave Hive Guard that ability because it's one of the few things which make them viable as an anti-tank unit.

Tervigons can produce far more Termagants than looks feasible based on their model.

So? Spore Mine thingy (pyrovore?) doesnt look like it can produce them yet it does...

You can simply add the Biovore to my list of things that don't make sense then.

Mephistons story is worse than Draigos...

at least Draigo used a sword, Mephiston just walked around naked killing things with his bare hands...

What's silly about that? He is effectively a Daemon Prince of the Blood Angels. Back in the day he had Vampire Lord stats, and his old picture had him wiping blood from his face whilst being surrounded by smoke and bats. 2nd edition wasn't really as subtle as a lot of people like to think it was...

[Chem-Dog]

Oh yeah and 3. Tau krootox rider uses the "kroot gun." Under it's profile its a S7 48" rapid fire weapon. what?

I fail to see the issue here, it's a big-ass gun strapped to the back of a space-parrot/cow beast, it's bigger than "man portable" and has the kick to prove it, at close range, accuracy is less of an issue and the gunner can shoot faster.

"Lictors cannot attack the turn they arrive."

**** you, honestly, **** you.

Lurk. "ta-dah". Dead.
Pointless.

Mephiston's origional name was Calistarius, and he was a Librarian that was put into the Death Company after beginning to suffer from the Black Rage (or was it Red Thirst?... aren't they the same thing anyways?). He was trapped under rubble during the course of a battle, and fought the Black Rage and eventually had overcome it by the time he was rescued. He was trapped as Calistarius, and reborn as Mephiston when he was freed from the rubble.

Almost perfect. But Mephiston broke free of his "tomb" (at midnight, naturally) and proceeded to make his own way back to Imperial Lines. He doesn't need rescuing.

Mephistons story is worse than Draigos...

at least Draigo used a sword, Mephiston just walked around naked killing things with his bare hands...

Oh Please. Mephiston becomes an avatar of death, remade in the image of the Primarch in his most wrathful cast. His transformation is both miraculous and sinister and none, save perhaps Mephiston himself, knows if he represent salvation or a final and unutterable damnation.
He killed a Handful of Ork Boyz whilst in full power-up mode, hardly a huge achievement.

Draigo, on the other hand, Managed to reforge a sword whilst outside of the material realm and then manages to exist inside the realm that's utterly anathema to anything living and curb-stomping everything he lays eyes on. The only good thing about the Draigo story is that some fluff nuts have come up with some interesting ways of not making the story suck halfway as much as it appears to.

[Gangremond]

SM: Command squads unable to take jump packs.

Modelwise: Guys wearing helmets are easier to kill.
Khan, the chapter master of an army known for bikes (Born in the saddle 4th ed), doesn't have an official model with a bike.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Many of you people are pointing out the simple flaw with a D6 system and stats.

There can only be so much divergence in abilities.

Think of a Civilian humanoid with 0 BS. Slightly trained, ie. has fired a gun 1 BS. Conscripts 2 BS. Trained line soldier 3 BS. Space Marine and other Veterans of all types 4 BS. Heroes of various degrees 5+ BS.

Regarding Space Marines. Remember, not many of them are free thinking soldiers who take the initiative. Most are well trained indoctrinated drones who seek direction and leadership. Adhering to the Astartes is a boon, but not always a blessing.

I could actually see IG Storm Troopers being a more fluid, reactive force on the battlefield if cut off from command or communications. They aren't anywhere near as drone like.

Yes, some chapters tend to pursue their own tactics, but again, I don't see many marines being free thinkers. Those who are tend to be plucked out and bred as officers.

[Konovalev]

Oh Please. Mephiston becomes an avatar of death, remade in the image of the Primarch in his most wrathful cast. His transformation is both miraculous and sinister and none, save perhaps Mephiston himself, knows if he represent salvation or a final and unutterable damnation.
He killed a Handful of Ork Boyz whilst in full power-up mode, hardly a huge achievement.

I'm not saying draigos story isn't ridiculous. But Orks are known to be tough. Capable of surviving bolter shots, being cut in half, limbs blown/torn off them, etc. And a naked space marine killed a bunch of them with his hands. Not with psychic powers, or an improvised "ork with spiked helmet" mace, but with his hands. Not to mention these orks were apparently powerless to stop him, completely incapable of harming a space marine who was unarmed and without armor.

As if that wasn't goofy enough, this space marine transforms into what is essentially a daemon prince(as far as power goes) without any visible change. Even The Sanguinor isn't as buffed up as Mephiston, and The Sanguinor is deus ex machina defined.

[GrogDaTyrant]

One thing that irks me to no end about the Orks... One of the armies (if not THE army) with the most customization and variance across the entirety of it, has the most simplified 'no-options' units. Seriously, how is it every Looted weapon magically becomes a d3-shot Autocannon, even if it was a Heavy Bolter prior? Or why is it I seriously cannot have a weapon OTHER than a twin-linked sawn-off big-shoota on any Bike? You mean to seriously tell me no Ork has been crazy enough to mount a massive rokkit launcher on his hog? Or that a Looted Wagon can't be made out of a Hammerhead chassis? Or that the Orks, supposedly an army built with a healthy appetite for close quarter fighting, hasn't come up with any other close combat weapon beyond "Axe", "Chainsword", "Big Axe", "Power Klaw", and limited supply "Cutting Torch"?

[Darth Bobo]

How about an imperial commissar executing an allied Magnus Calgar for failing a leadership test?

[Clarkson]

You missed my point entirely. Astorath is executioner of the Death Company for EVERY Blood Angels successor chapter spread throughout the entire galaxy.

and im sure seth and other people in other chapters will kill them.. its a defect they dont want the inquistion knowing.. they really gonna let them live because astorath cant make it for his 10oclock appointment?

I was referring to their assault output solely, and not whatever they can shoot during the shooting phase. Or maybe we should remove Furious Charge from Khorne Berserkers and give them relentless and bolters. Let's see how well down that goes...

then you didnt come across that well.. sure losing rending is a pain.. but they still pack quite a punch in CC with all the pw and fists and extra gubbins they can take.

You honestly think it makes sense that a Librarian can exert the psychic will to lift a several tonne warmachine dozens of feet into the air and land it safely, and somehow not be able to do this at any other point in his career? I don't ever remember my Librarians lifting Leman Russes off the ground with his mind.

yet runepriest can open the floor (billions of tons of rock, metal, and other stuff) and suck in people with Jaws? You seem to be bitching about things you have no control over..

Calistarius succumbed to the Black Rage on Armageddon and was inducted to the Death Company. During a battle for some chapel (?) the roof collapsed and he was buried alive, upon which point he also fell victim to the Red Thirst. Over seven days and seven nights he fought both with his mind alone and on the seventh day he burst from his tomb and was reborn Mephiston. This story (from 2nd edition onwards) is completely at odds with the idea that Librarians which fall to the Black Rage are swiftly executed lest they endanger the Chapter with their rogue powers (5th edition). Under the new version Calistarius should also have been executed.

as i stated above.. other chapters kill psyker that turn bad and then are investigated by the inquistion to see if thing have spread.. and BA have a flaw they want to keep hidden

Do you even understand the topic of this thread? The whole point is that BS3 Scouts that are as seasoned as BS4 Imperial Guard Veterans makes no sense. So no I won't get over it actually, and maybe you should troll less.

I understand perfectly... I just set about answering your rhetoric with actual answers that explain away your pissed off nature

I'll remember that next time I try to chainsaw someone in Gears of War: "I'm sorry Mr Locust I didn't realize you were wearing clothes, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered trying to saw you in half."

At least keep it to the same game system please? You accuse me of trolling, yet you bring other excuses into this thread and forum that doesnt rightly have a place for it here. and yes chainsaws arent killy death because of balance.. people already complain that SM kill xenos too easily.. add in a CCW they dont have to pay for that can cleave through their armour or rend and you are just making people not buy the army most affected.

Balance has nothing to do with this issue. This is all about laziness from a company that makes nearly everything in the Space Marine codex cost multiples of 5 so that it's easier to count for little Timmy.

So you want every game to be 4 hours prep time and 9 hours table top? If you want a game system where str and ap and other thing affect every last person.. play whfb or historic games like FoW or the other countless thousands.. 40k already got too complicated with 6th.. god help us all if you get your way and 7th will take all week to play a simple 1v1

Try answering the following question: "Which of the following two would be fire at a charging enemy most accurately? Is it a) a Pheonix Lord or b) a Termagant? Sorry, trick question, they're both as accurate as each other at shooting when being charged."

like i said.. its balance and yes i agree with you on this.. laziness.. but dont argue with me, when it was them that made the decisions

It wasn't changed in the main rulebook, so there's no reason to believe it will be in the codices.

and why not? and i mention mini-dex's too, you know? the WD supplements?

How is that effectively any different from a heat-seeking missile, which our world has had for several decades but which eludes the best and brightest of the Eldar and Imperial scientific community? Robin Cruddace only gave Hive Guard that ability because it's one of the few things which make them viable as an anti-tank unit.


Because they are insectoids bred specifically to kill whatever they come up agaisnt.. they evolved a tracking system naturally that can kill anything.. and sure cruddance may have given them that ability just coz.. doesnt mean everyone should have them

You can simply add the Biovore to my list of things that don't make sense then.

Mine too but dont roll your eyes at me because i found something else that displease the lord and master of us all.. all hail the mighty and apptly named "FEAR GHOUL"

[Clarkson]

How about an imperial commissar executing an allied Magnus Calgar for failing a leadership test?

I still need to do this in a tournee.. its a shame that i'd probs be disqualified for trolling XD

[Xerkics]

Like Was mentioned Previously The reason he is called Mephiston is that he is no longer Calistarius. And what GW is implying with this name change and stat line is that he is possessed by a daemon prince/greater daemon of tzeentch therefore the stats. He made a deal with the devil. Mephistopheles like in Faust. SEe what is implied here?

[Inquisitor Engel]

CRAFTWORLD VS DE CODEX

Kabalite: "We are cutthroat traitorous raiders who have no reguard for our lives or others!"
Guardian: "We are a dying race with hyper advanced technology!"
Kabalite: "We arm ourselves with long ranged weapons, our haemonculi make us tougher than orks and if I fall in battle my comrades bring a piece of my soul back so I may be saved from the predations of slaanesh and live once more!"
Guardian: "We shoot as far as a space marine can catch us with a powerfist, our warlocks herd us to the front lines (every single warlock power involves either getting stuck in', or drawing fire, or making sure you die to a man) and our reward after our inevitable violent death in battle is having our soul eternally trapped in a stone, or put in an unfeeling battle-coffin."
Kabalite: "...wow, that's mean."

This sums up what's wrong with Guardians in general.

I have my own thoughts on how to make them truly worth taking, but we'll leave that for another thread.

[Clarkson]

This sums up what's wrong with Guardians in general.

I have my own thoughts on how to make them truly worth taking, but we'll leave that for another thread.

but arent guardians just the militia? the home guard as it were.. not meant for interstellar fights

[GrogDaTyrant]

but arent guardians just the militia? the home guard as it were.. not meant for interstellar fights

Not all of them are. One of the themes for Craftworld Ulthwe was that their guardians were an active, standing army. They used to get +1 BS if they were Guardian Defenders, or +1 WS if they were Storm Guardians. The idea was that Ulthwe didn't have *as many* Aspect Warriors as other craftworlds, but they had a far greater number of Eldar willing to form an active-duty military as well as the population to support it.

[TrojanWolf]

Kheradruakh, a creature that can slink between the shadows without anyone knowing of his presence, as well as being part of a back-stabbing, sneaky and cruel race... cannot charge on the turn he arrives. No, instead of just grabbing some hapless guy from behind and slicing his throat then butchering the rest of his squad before they know what's going on, he must casually stroll out of his hiding place into clear view and give an evil laugh first.

Let's also remember the chameleon Lictors and their ultimate evolution, the Deathleaper...

[Clarkson]

Kheradruakh, a creature that can slink between the shadows without anyone knowing of his presence, as well as being part of a back-stabbing, sneaky and cruel race... cannot charge on the turn he arrives. No, instead of just grabbing some hapless guy from behind and slicing his throat then butchering the rest of his squad before they know what's going on, he must casually stroll out of his hiding place into clear view and give an evil laugh first.

Let's also remember the chameleon Lictors and their ultimate evolution, the Deathleaper...

dont forget that straken can ignore armour with an arm made of steel but abaddon with the gribbliest of all daemon weapons pings off TDA after first checking if the daemons face munches him

[onidemon]

but arent guardians just the militia? the home guard as it were.. not meant for interstellar fights

That seems to have evolved over the various iterations of 40k. Early on, Guardians were the core of an Eldar army, and you supplemented them with aspect warriors, much like how tactical marines are supplemented with assault or devastator units.

As recently as 2nd edition, the humble Guardian was a very capable fighter, with every soldier carrying the equivalent of an armor penetrating storm bolter.

Then, toward the end of 2nd and beginning of 3rd ed, aspect warriors grew more and more appealing to the studio players and in turn the designers, and with that change in focus guardians had to keep fading into the background. Like a child eating just the marshmallows out of a bowl of Lucky Charms, battle reports in White Dwarf started focusing just on aspect warriors.

This didn't get better when Gav Thorpe's Eldar codex changed the focus of the Eldar background from "a dying race, defending it's interests in a universe driving them to extinction" to something more like "their arrogance is matched only by their arrogant contempt for the Mon-keigh, who they hold in arrogant contempt." Guardians hint at a race where everyone is fighting for survival, while an all-aspect force better fit the uber-elite "arrogance", which Gav felt was very important to stress with the Eldar, and so it found it's way into the actual army list. (Also, that list was the one that came with a dreadnought so powerful compared to the rest of the army it practically became the Eldar army in internet arguments)

For anyone who joined the game in the last five to ten years, it must be hard to look at the Eldar and not think of Guardians the way we think of grotz in an ork army... an interesting way to hold an uncontested objective, and not much else.