Fixing Bretonnia

[TheDungen]

Lo folks I was thinking about how the bretts are considered an underpowered option in mordheim. from what I've understood its because they lose two heroes when they lose one. well here my idea how to do that differently.

Each squire is attached to a specific knight, and get some kind of bonus for fighting near him.(benefit from all virtues taken by the knight they squitre for?) If the knight falls in battle he passes on his sword and his quest to his squire, while the squire wouldn't be considered a full knight back in brettonia it is a strong recommendation for him to be knighted, for all points an purposes he is now considered a knight's errent. He may take the skills they take and only use the weapons they use (unless his skills allow him to use something else), he will however retain his old statline. A new squire can be bough for the new knight or a hero in the warband that currently does not squire for a knight may squire for him (This is heroes that have been risen through the lads got talent advancement), the squire will only be able to take skills and weapons that squires can take (unless his skills allow him to use something else) he will however retain his staline.
(not that if the questing knight should fall by normal warband leader rules one of the knights errent will for all points and purposes become a question knight)

So do you think this would work? its fitting (well somewhat) and it removes the old you have to remove a squire idea, however it also means you can only ever recruit squire heroes to the warband, on the other hand it also means you can keep yourself at maximum heroes without ever having to buy a knight character.

(if they're still underpowered i might halve the cost for armour for knights upon recruitment)

[TheDungen]

hmm or maybe i should just ditch the idea of pairing squires and knights and say that the squire with the highest leadership becomes a knight and if there are more than one squire with the same leadership then the most experienced one, and if there still is a tie then roll of.

[grumbaki]

There is so much wrong with the Bretonnian warband. Personally, here is what I would do (and then call it a day).

Take out the lady's blessing. Replace it with this:

"If a knight wears heavy armor, then his armor save may not be modified to be worse than a 5+ for any reason, except for when a spell specifically ignores armor saves. If he wears light armor, then it cannot be modified to be worse than a 6+. A knight must always wear some sort of armor."

And new skill:

Shield Bash: A knight may attack with his shield, treating it as a club. If combined with heavy armor, the knight suffers -1 I instead of -1M.

=====

This would be to encourage Bretonnians to actually wear armor, and it makes the blessing useful against all warbands. Against those with no shooting, it is just lost.

[Brother Fenix]

My house rules for Bretonnian Warbands:
•Squires are 0-3, Questing Knight’s may have (2), a Knight Errant (1), squires may NOT select “special skills”
•Lady of the Lake’s Blessing (Remove Curse Rule): A successful leadership test gives a 5+ armor save vs. black powder for entire warband, 6+ vs. bow shooting at knights only (may be combined with armor)
•A Knight may NOT have both the Virtue of Discipline and the Virtue of Impetuous
•A Questing Knight may purchase heavy armor and a helmet for 45 gc, when initially creating a warband.
•A Knight’s Training: All Knight’s may wear heavy armor and carry a shield without a movement penalty.

From this thread:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...57#post5728857

My latest changes to the above after some play testing (two changes):

-Bretonnian Warbands have the following additional rules to be used:
•Remove the “Squires” rule in reference to the number of knights, squires may NOT select “special skills”
•A Questing Knight may purchase heavy armor and a helmet for 30 gc, when initially creating a warband.

[TheDungen]

I'm not sure i liek that, while there should be advantages to specific gear one shouldnt be forced to equip their characters in a certain way. I could see bretts getting armour cheaper and an over all improvement to shields/armour for all involved warbands.


the -1M for heavy armour and shield should be removed altogether, shields giving an extra attack anyway. And the cost of armour dropped but i wouldnt give the bretts other armour benefits than them being able to buy it cheaper.

as for the curse why not bring it up to the warhammer idea 6+ wardsave that becomes 5+ if attacked by S5 or more.

[grumbaki]

Mostly because even with cheaper armor, the most effective thing to do in Mordheim is run around naked with a pair of clubs. And a sling if you are fortunate enough to know how to use it. The idea of naked knights running around with a pair of hammers just doesn't seem right to me, even if weapons magically bounce off of them. Perhaps I'm just being cynical, but I believe that most players will go with what is most effective, not what is most fluffy. Therefore, the rules should try to encourage players to be fluffy.

Take a look at the Bretonnian armybook. Every knight *has* to wear armor. Does it limit their choices? I'd say no. If a knight isn't wearing armor, then he really isn't being a knight. If there are no rules to encourage the wearing of armor, I'd like to see Bretonnian knights have heavy armor included automatically. 50gc for a WS3 S3 T3 I3 A1 Ld7 warrior is pretty horrific, even if they have the blessing and are immune to all alone tests. Having an armor save would make them more balanced in my view.

[Asp]

problem with bretonnia is their army list is already one of the thinnest in WHFB

one thing it think would be neat would be to give men at arms a special rule that allows them to use spear as halberd when armed with spear and shield (this loosing shield while they do)

[TheDungen]

not naked but just clad in cloth... why not? and as said armour needs fixing independent of brettonia. In that case I'm saying ditching the whole S reduced armour concept. It works well in warhammer cause you have so many wounds t go around and so much high s attacks. In mordheim the most S that anyone will ever hit anyone with is an ogre hitting you with a two handed sword. and considering that 1+ and 2+ armour saves aren't that available anyway, and bringing an ogre down in close combat is hard anyway i'll say he's fearsome enough anyway.