Which Chaos God might be most drawn to Orks?

[bittick]

Orks could easily fall to Chaos. They have all the right interests. It's just that most Orks are more interested in "being an Ork" than they are in taking skulls, or tricking their enemies, or even going fast. And Gork and Mork are the gods of "being an Ork". Worship a Chaos god and you're getting kinda weird for most Orks.

For example, rednecks like football, they like their guns, they like drinkin' beer, they like pickup trucks. They like church on Sundays. They like huntin', they like country music, they like women, and Elvis, and America. Those are 10 things rednecks like. Some rednecks like some things more than others, but every true redneck likes those 10 things. Now if somebody lets his beer drinkin' get in the way of his church goin', there's a problem. He doesn't fit in quite right with society. Letting your church goin' interfere with your football watchin' (like say, goin' on Sunday night when the game is on) and you're not really a redneck. A redneck who don't like football or Elvis? Well... there's somethin' wrong with you. People will look at you funny. A redneck who loves his guns so much that he doesn't take care of his truck, or lets his season tickets to Alabama football go? Well that's just obsessive.

Same thing with Orks. Orks are British Space Rednecks. They love Ork things. Obsess over one particular thing too much (the way you will if you follow a Chaos god), and society will look at you funny. "Gragnar didn't come down to watch the grots hit each other in the head with hammers. He's up there polishing those skulls." "Graak, you're polishing skulls too." "Yeah but I came down to watch the grot fights." While there are certainly Ork kults that follow different aspects of being an Ork (and thus probably most susceptible to Chaos worship), most Orks seem to be focused on "being Orks".

[Pentregarth]

"but I doubt the chaos gods would get much out of it."

I'd disagree there, don't Orks have a ludicrously powerful Warp presence, in the form of Waagh!! Energy?

That's something the Chaos Gods are drawn to. If only you can think of a reason that one of the Chaos Gods would notice it before Gork or Mork (Warp Storm, proximity to the Eye or one of the other rifts, a sneaky Tzeentchian type crashlanding on an Ork Homeworld), the rest just falls into place... I think.

The question is, can warp entities use any kind of energy that fits their bill or does it have to be directed? eg. most space marines are fierce combatants who feel hatred towards their enemies (actually, the same could be said for anybody who fights on his own accord without being forced), so they generate psychic energy khorne could use. The opposite theory would be that someone actually has to fight in Khorne's name for him to benefit from the generated energy.
Anyways, this discussion is turning a) philosophic and b) fairly moot by now, because we don't have stated facts that tell us how the gods of the warhammer universe operate, just theories and random hints in the fluff.

[Johnnya10]

I'm inclined to go for Nurgle. Putting the 'green' argument aside, they are essentially a fungus. Also, give Plaguebearers two eyes instead of one and they'd look pretty orky. Like an ork with the flu or something.

But saying that, I can imagine Bloodthirsters and Berserkers screaming 'Waaagghhh!' as they run into a fight, which orks are sure to appreciate. And being that they love noise, Noise Marines could attract them (though as they come from spores, they probably wouldn't be that interested in the kinkier side of Slaanesh). The only one I'd have a problem with would be Tzeentch. Maybe if a sorcery was controlling the Boss' brain, but I'd have a harder time buying into those. Also, would that make it S-ork-cery?

[Desalbert]

Orks could easily fall to Chaos. They have all the right interests. It's just that most Orks are more interested in "being an Ork" than they are in taking skulls, or tricking their enemies, or even going fast. And Gork and Mork are the gods of "being an Ork". Worship a Chaos god and you're getting kinda weird for most Orks.

For example, rednecks like football, they like their guns, they like drinkin' beer, they like pickup trucks. They like church on Sundays. They like huntin', they like country music, they like women, and Elvis, and America. Those are 10 things rednecks like. Some rednecks like some things more than others, but every true redneck likes those 10 things. Now if somebody lets his beer drinkin' get in the way of his church goin', there's a problem. He doesn't fit in quite right with society. Letting your church goin' interfere with your football watchin' (like say, goin' on Sunday night when the game is on) and you're not really a redneck. A redneck who don't like football or Elvis? Well... there's somethin' wrong with you. People will look at you funny. A redneck who loves his guns so much that he doesn't take care of his truck, or lets his season tickets to Alabama football go? Well that's just obsessive.

Same thing with Orks. Orks are British Space Rednecks. They love Ork things. Obsess over one particular thing too much (the way you will if you follow a Chaos god), and society will look at you funny. "Gragnar didn't come down to watch the grots hit each other in the head with hammers. He's up there polishing those skulls." "Graak, you're polishing skulls too." "Yeah but I came down to watch the grot fights." While there are certainly Ork kults that follow different aspects of being an Ork (and thus probably most susceptible to Chaos worship), most Orks seem to be focused on "being Orks".

Honestly, this is an amazing post. I think it may be one of the best ones on Warseer, and it made me laugh several times. Parts of it are no-question signature worthy. Thanks for it too, because it's also informative.

From what I gather you're looking for the narrative behind why your army is together, like their own personal story. If that's the case which god have you chosen. I'm sure myself and others can help with that if thats what you need.

You're quite right in that that was my hope for the thread yes, but I'm quite glad that beyond my selfish thread we've had some great conversation about chaos and orks and I want that to continue.

I guess the thing is, I haven't decided which god would be more interested or more apt to come together with Orks on a consecutive basis, and even if the Orks have no care for them. At the moment I'm leaning towards the force being Orks and Slaanesh, maybe they'll be Bad Moon Orks with their penchants for gluttony, shiny things, riches and other (Orky) pleasures, or perhaps they'll be Bad Moons with a side of Speed Freeks that have come together somehow, and in that maelstrom of pure kulty joy with the aid of a few weirdboyz, have proved to be a beacon-in-realspace far too bright for Slaanesh's Daemons to avoid... Though the capricious will of Slaanesh, for whatever reason yet to be determined, will not see this band killed like any others, but used as a tool. Perhaps also it might be argued that Slaanesh cannot gain Ork souls, so the killing of such a...joyous intrument full of fetishes (though Orky in nature) would have no value to him, or any of his offspring.

It doesn't need to be Slaanesh, but that's the way I lean for the moment

[Erzanj]

Thanks to this thread, I now have the urge to create an army of Noise Marines allied with Ork Rockers.

Big Boss with Sonic-Chainaxe-Guitar for teh win!

[Praznagar]

I just happened to flick through a pal's copy of Waaagh the Orks! the other day.

Amazing book, they don't make 'em like they used to!

Two chaos gods were specifically mentioned: Nurgle (who Mork and Gork beat up, accidently creating nurglings) and Khorne who a rare few orks (Goff and stormboys) are drawn to.

But generaaly chaos powers ignore orks since the greenskins are happy being orks and lack the existensial fear of more corruptable races.

[OgreBattle]

How about the reverse


Can orks convince demons to become Orky? Can the Waaagh cut them from the gods and instill with them a new warp presence?

[Drasanil]

Can orks convince demons to become Orky? Can the Waaagh cut them from the gods and instill with them a new warp presence?

No idea where you got that given no one else IIRC has ever been given magical powers to alter a daemon's nature. Daemons are very acute and congealed emotions. Given that the greens out number humanity and seem to be more psychic to boot, if the Waaagh had any appreciable 'mix' with those emotions it wouldn't have formed into two distinct entities Gork and Mork, rather the Chaos Gods would be quite a bit more orky themselves.

[Shadey]

Orks are psycologically immune to chaos

Nurgle = Despair/Giving in - Not an Orky trait
Khorne = Rage/Battle - Orks like to fight but they dont really take it too seriously
Slaanesh = Pleasure - Orks dont have vices to exploit
Tzeentch = Hope/Planning Ahead - I dont think that most orks see past the end of a shoota

I can see Orks apeing Khorne worship, but in a way that would cause maximum offence to Khorne. There were Khorne stormboyz in the old background after all.

They and the rest of the Orks still belog to Mork and Gork though.

Slaanesh is about excess (and perversion), not pleasure per se. Orks don't do subtle, they don't do things by half so there is actually a surprising amount of crossover. Though certainly many of the specific vices/excess, in particular art/sex/beauty and the things that follow from them have almost no place in Orkish society.

No idea where you got that given no one else IIRC has ever been given magical powers to alter a daemon's nature. Daemons are very acute and congealed emotions. Given that the greens out number humanity and seem to be more psychic to boot, if the Waaagh had any appreciable 'mix' with those emotions it wouldn't have formed into two distinct entities Gork and Mork, rather the Chaos Gods would be quite a bit more orky themselves.

Not sure on that, maybe. I don't know how much of the acts of faith for example of the sisters was a collective psychic display which is analogous to the power of the Waaagh produced by a lot of Orks. Perhaps their lower threshold might be higher but I have never heard of an Ork psyker who comes even close to a human Alpha+.

[Sol]

I'm not a big fan of mixing orks and chaos, but if I hab to choose I would say:

Nurgle accepts his followers as they are so I say He could accept orks aswell, and I think Nurgle has the greatest chance to "possess" as he is the only one who does this phisically with his nice little Nurgle's rot. an infected ork could infect many more so they could form a warband of infected orks and altough they may not worship Nurgle maybe unwillingly they would kill in the name of Nurgle and after they die a new kind of plaguebearers is born

or course many say Khorne gets the most votes because of the brutal close combat attitude, but he demands skulls and blood not every ork is going to take the time sacrafice skulls and blood for Khorne

Tzeentch and his trickeries and mindf*cks dont bother the orks as stated in the ork codex they don't really care for much.

Slaneesh? nah to random for orks and altough he/she/it is the God/dess of pleasure and I'm sure war is pleasure for the orks I just can imagine Slaneesh orks

[Lord-Caerolion]

How about the reverse


Can orks convince demons to become Orky? Can the Waaagh cut them from the gods and instill with them a new warp presence?

A daemon is, in a way, not a separate entity, but rather an aspect of their God. While we comprehend them as separate beings, they're really one and the same. It's all part of the mind-messing metaphysics of the Warp. So, you can't "instill them with a new warp presence" any more than you can kill someone, make a sculpture of them, and say the sculpture is the "new them". The daemon is its warp presence, which is an extension of the gods warp presence.

It could be that the daemon is part of the warp energy "lost" when one God loses power and another increases, but that's not the daemon "changing allegiance", but simply one daemon no longer existing, and another different daemon coming into existance.

[BooTMGSG]

I think an amalgum of Slaanesh and Khorne.
They like fighting, but they are not obsessed with killing, they like shooting because they like the sound and feel of the Dakka not the killing with it (lets face it they don't care if they hit something. In fact if they hit something they can't chop it later.) They like punching stuff, they love big trukkas and fast buggies. They are about the simple joys in life.

[Omegon]

From what your suggested fluff is; you want a pure Ork force allied with daemons then by you're ideas I think Tzeentch or possibly Nurgle.
Tzeentch: as the weirdboy is acting as a beacon/anchor rather than being worshipped this could for with the convoluted plans of Tzeentch. For one or another inexplicable plan Tzeentch is aiding them; it would inevitably end badly in the end for the Orks
Nurgle: the green tide would be a perfect way to spread the diseases of Nurgle.

[Harwammer]

For orks life is one big party. As long as the leader can keep the party rocking then that boss is adored. Party rocking and leader worship: two strongly Slaanesh traits.

[Grubnar]

... Soon enough, he begins to hear whispers after each battle, talking about the long-lost third brother of the Ork Pantheon. The Ork rises to lead his tribe, and his tales of the new Ork deity, ...

FYI, there once was a third Ork god. He was named Bork. But Gork and Mork ganged up on him and killed him. This is why the other "warp gods" are mostly save from them, now they mostly fight each other and since they are roughly evenly matched neither one can manage to gain an advantige and so they are locked in an endless struggle.

Of course, once in a while they may tire of their fight and decide to go "beat up da emperor" (or Khorne) but inevtably Gork will punch Mork (or Mork will sucker punch Gork) and the cycle wil begin anew.

[Soss]

I would almost think of it as maybe a rivalry between orks and chaos. They are desperate aliies anyways. Imagine Orks murdering Hummies and then Khorne deamons show up and start doing the same. The orks would be jealous of the deamons havin to much fun and killin all the hummies. So it would make the orks kill hummies faster so the deamons don't get to kill them, the deamons would feed off of the destruction caused by the orks. They could both feed off of each other with out ever being allies or influenced by each other. Then the next time that ork tribe starts murdering again the same deamon are aware, show up again and want in on the action.

[smileyface]

I think if you look at it from the Chaos perspective, rather than the Ork perspective, Tzeentch makes the most sense. Orks are just another tool for the patterner to use, after all.

If orks weren't made of plotonium that's completely at odds with chaos they'd all be serving either khorne or slaanesh, though. Khorne, kind of obvious, but slaanesh is all about pleasure, whatever it is that you like. Compare the motivations of noise marines with those of speed freeks. They're pretty close to identical.

[A.T.]

Khorne’s Stormboyz were an official thing, waaaaay back - there was even a model released for them.

Also a generic ork chaos champion (with slaanesh style claw) - google Khorne’s Stormboyz

[AndrewGPaul]

For what it's worth, Orks can (could? who knows now) get possessed by daemons. However, due to the Ork psyche, it doesn't "take" very well; instead of controlling the host body, the daemon has to share with the Ork's mind - resulting in an Ork who argues with himself in two different voices. Occasionally the daemon can exert some control over the body, and generally tries to get the Ork killed so it can return to the realm of Chaos and try again for a more suitable host.

[TheDungen]

my guess would be that human and ork emotions are just to diffrent for ork and human psychic reflections to mix (unlike say human and eldar), that why the orks psychic presence form a separate entity (or actually two). this would also make it very hard for orks to be corrupted over the barrier they're just not susceptible to the whispers of chaos. They can however be corrupted much in the same way as non psychic races such as the tau can. Through demonic entities already in the materium. As for demons. demon princes are semi separated from their god, they could possibly survive betraying him if they did so to a powerful enough patron. But Gork and Mork wouldnt call toa human demonprince and i dont think they'd accept him, for to un orky.

That said i guess a orkish demonprince of gork (or possibly mork) would be possible, they jsut dont seem that intrested in granting their followers immortality. Propably because they simply dont need to. Orks do what the gods want because they want to not because the gods want it, or because there is some reward.