Having trouble with beating Cryx

[ProAndrew]

Hello! I'm having trouble with beating Cryx. I played two 35 point games recently as Menoth against my mate who plays Cryx and lost both of them. I'm a new player and I don't have a lot of experience. I tried tier3 eKreoss and pKreoss list but neither lists seemed to work well. His list looks something like this
pSkarre
Death Ripper
Helldiver
Satyxis Raiders + UA
Bile Thralls
Mechanithralls
Necrosurgeon and Stitch Thralls
Satyxis Raider Sea Witch

These are my lists:
List1
eKreoss +6 warjack points
Reckoner 8 points
5 Exemplar Bastions 8 points
10 Exemplar Errants 8 points + Officer and Standard 2 points
6 Knights Exemplar 5 points
6 Knights Exemplar 5 points
High Exemplar Gravus 5 points
1 Knights Exemplar Seneschal 0 points(tier bonus)

List2
pSeverius +6 warjack points
Blessing of Vengeance 7 points
Reckoner 8 points
4 Choir of Menoth 2 points
Hierophant 2 points
6 Daughters 5 points
10 Exemplar Errants 8 points + Officer and Standard 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
Rhoven and Co. 4 points
Wracks 1 point

What would you recommend? Thanks in advance.

[DeeKay]

It looks like you need to look at some form of crowd control. Everything in this guy's force looks like it has relatively low ARM, the highest I can see is 15. Heavy hitters and fire effects will hurt. I'm assuming that each of the Cryx units is a max unit, so Jacks such as Redeemers or Vanquishers might be a good idea. The Raider's UA might make them immune to blast damage, but not to the other effects of the attack. Setting them on fire is a viable option.

None of the stuff you are taking has any real problems, apart from maybe the Daughters. Between their small unit size, average base MAT and relatively high points cost, the points may be better spent elsewhere. Cleansers perhaps? I have had some success using these guys in the past, especially with their UA.

Anyway, hope this helps.

With regards,
Dan.

[toxic_wisdom]

For what its worth, these seven words I'm having trouble with beating Cryx...pSkarre put you in the same boat with many others = trying to not be biased, but imho pSkarre is one of Cryx best Warcasters and that list is rock solid. I am going to guess though that the Sea Witch listed separately is the Satyxis Captain, since the Sea Witch is the UA for the Raiders.

I'd like to offer you some game-breaking tips on how to deal with your friend's list, but truth be told this will only come from you after several more games played. You need to get through her feat turn, on both the offensive and defensive side of it, and then alpha strike asap = against pSkarre you will generally only have a one-turn chance to finish the game...so make it count. Also, keep her spell castling in check = her Sacrifice spell is what makes her a lethal focus battery, and her Dark Guidance is what makes her infantry spam perform quite well - not to mention the two bonejacks on her feat turn. And lastly, be mindful of Skarre's location at all times !.. Hellfire plus Sac Strike can often be enough to end a game, and if not she is one of the few Warcasters in the game that doesn't mind being in the front of the pack and bringing the game to an end by her own hands ( and horns ).

[ProAndrew]

I tried this list and lost really badly.

pSeverius +6 warjack points
Blessing of Vengeance 7 points
Reckoner 8 points
Vanquisher 8 points
4 Choir of Menoth 2 points
Hierophant 2 points
6 Exemplar Errants 5 points + Officer and Standard 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
Rhoven and Co. 4 points
Wracks 1 point

My biggest trouble is satyxis raiders. Vanquisher killed only 3 raiders and A2A missed completely and then my jacks died. He put his raiders in a forest so they were DEF18 against ranged attacks. We played one of the steamrollers2012 scenarios. I couldn't kill the sea witch cause she was hiding at the back of the squad. Any advice on what to do?

[ProAndrew]

I tried this list and lost really badly.

pSeverius +6 warjack points
Blessing of Vengeance 7 points
Reckoner 8 points
Vanquisher 8 points
4 Choir of Menoth 2 points
Hierophant 2 points
6 Exemplar Errants 5 points + Officer and Standard 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
Rhoven and Co. 4 points
Wracks 1 point

My biggest trouble is satyxis raiders. Vanquisher killed only 3 raiders and A2A missed completely and then my jacks died. He put his raiders in a forest so they were DEF18 against ranged attacks. We played one of the steamrollers2012 scenarios. I couldn't kill the sea witch cause she was hiding at the back of the squad. Any advice on what to do?

EDIT: Oops double post.

[Falkman]

There's way too much support in that list, you don't need Rhoven and crew, and you don't need both a Hierophant and the Wracks for pSevvy at this level.
You need models that can do some killing and jamming instead, a full unit of Errants instead of a small one would be nice. If you need something that's really good at jamming, consider Holy zealots. Their Greater destiny ability really screws up a lot of plans for a melee centered army like Cryx.
Keep in mind that the Force barrier (+2 Def) ability of the Satyxis only works against shooting, not magic, so in a forest the Satyxis is Def 16 against spells, pSevvy has Focus 8 + 1 to hit from Eye of Menoth, barring really bad rolls a boosted Ashes to ashes will hit.
Also remember that even though the Satyxis is immune to blast damage while the UA lives, any effects from an AOE will still apply, so every model under a Vanquisher AOE will be set on fire, even if they are immune to the blast damage.

[ProAndrew]

But what if he brings Tartarsauce and I won't have Rhoven and his friends? How do I deal with him?

[Falkman]

Lob Vanquisher aoes on him, tag him with Ashes to ashes hits, jam him with Holy zealots etc etc.
In all fairness I was commenting on the list as it matches up to the pSkarre list in your first post, but to be completely honest you have multiple ways of dealing with a single stealthed model outside of Rhoven.

[ProAndrew]

What about this list?

pSeverius +6 warjack points
Blessing of Vengeance 7 points
Reckoner 8 points
Vanquisher 8 points
4 Choir of Menoth 2 points
10 Holy Zealots 6 points + Monolith Bearer 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios 3 points
Wracks 1 point

[toxic_wisdom]

tbh if you're simply looking for a list to beat your friend's Cryx list (rather than a general list to play against others) then you will want to run less 'jacks against him = Satyxis Raiders will have an easier time of eliminating an opposing Warcaster via Backlash / Feedback ... more 'jacks means more targets of opportunity.

[ProAndrew]

Hey. I played a game today with this list

pSeverius +6 warjack points
Blessing of Vengeance 7 points
Reckoner 8 points
Vanquisher 8 points
4 Choir of Menoth 2 points
10 Holy Zealots 6 points + Monolith Bearer 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
Rhupert Carvolo 2 points
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios 3 points
Wracks 1 point

It worked better than the one I tried last time. At least I managed to kill 30% of his army with this one. Holy Zealots worked very well. They held Nyss Hunters and Raiders for one turn. Zealots managed to kill only 2 guys cause skarre feated very early. I gave them Tough from Rupert which helped me save a few. Than I started shooting my own guys with vanquisher and killed 7 enemy models in a turn. However I rolled very poorly on A2A. I rolled 2 and 1 to see how many models got damaged. Reckoner did nothing in any of the games I played so I'll probably get another Vanquisher. Eirys got killed on a second turn from pSkarre's special ability so I'll probably get another vassal instead. What would you suggest I should do?

[ProAndrew]

Oops double post.

[ProAndrew]

Played another game against my friend today and the new list worked really well, however I wasn't impressed with the avatar. Avatar killed two crappy jacks and 3 Bane Thralls. I think Reckoner could do the same job for 3 points less. I'll probably drop the Avatar to Reckoner and get another Vassal for additional shot for my Vanquisher(3 AoEs ooh yeah!). I killed 70% of his army but still lost a game tho. Now I want this list to be able to fight most Cryx armies. The problem I have here is that all Incorporeal army would smash this list easily. I thought about taking Lady Aiyana & Master Holt, but I don't have enough points to field them. What would you guys recommend?

[SanguinaryDan]

Believe it or not a great way to deal with Satyix (or anything like them) is to bring the Castigator. I know it's not a popular jack but it really does a number on those hideous high DEF and SPD units. You keep it back a bit, then feed the enemy something cheap and immune to fire. Generally min Cleansers. He has to engage them or risk all those sprays or the AoE. When he does, you move up the Castigator and flash fry the Satyix.

I've done similar tricks with a min Stormguard unit backed up by Thunderhead and it works every time. Though it is a damned sight more expensive than the Cleanser+Castigator combo pack.

[Mechnomancer]

If you really want to screw over Cryx, play Harbinger with Errants. Don't forget Rhupert. It's a complete kick in the nuts to any Infantry heavy Cryx list.

[mortus]

I think there are three key pieces in your opponents list that if removed will cripple the effectiveness;

Raider Captain, no knockdown and movement increases for the raiders are mischievous.

Sea witch UA, brings to much to the unit but for deployment and power swell.

Necro Surgeon is a utility by healing Skarre or bringing mech thralls back.

Things that could help you;

Cleansers and UA, wall of fire will restrict where your opponent puts his troops and protect your stuff.

Deliverers can get the range on your opponent and the direct hit on the Sea Witch will hopefully remove force Barrier and take a big chunk of the unit too. Plus with PSevvy you'll have a few bonuses.

Hope this helps.

James