New 40K Necron player needing help with Greenskins

[amrogers3]

I am playing 1000 pts of Necrons this week. Mission is Crusade and opponent is Orks.

I was going to take 2 Monoliths, 2 Ghost Arks, and an Annihilation Barge because the Ork would have a problem with high AV. I then realized the Monolith would have to snap shot if the particle whip is fired. This greatly reduces the effectiveness of the Monolith.

Now I am stuck. 1000 points is difficult to work with. My concern is too many Ork models, Battlewagons, and having enough scoring units to seize D3+2 objectives.

Have 110 points to spend, any suggestions?

HQ

• 1 Overlord

Troops

• 5 Warriors, 1 Ghost Ark

• 5 Warriors, 1 Ghost Ark

Heavy

• 1 Annihilation Barge

• 1 Doomsday Ark

• 1 Doomsday Ark

Total Roster Cost: 890

Feel free to change up list.

[Brotheroracle]

110 points of troops?

[Alsiaie]

110 points of troops?

Words for the word god.

[Infidel]

Doomsday arks are for heavy duty stuff, I wouldn't worry about them against Orks. Annihilation barges are fine. They're cheap and take down trukks and with some luck, can put out a respectible amount of shooting.

At that point level things can get pretty rough. Against hordes, you need the volume of fire from big warrior sqauds. Hiding them in arks is a good place to start so boyz can't reach them.

In terms of tailoring your list to fight orks, Lords with Gauntlet of Fire is good.

[amrogers3]

Doomsday arks are for heavy duty stuff, I wouldn't worry about them against Orks. Annihilation barges are fine. They're cheap and take down trukks and with some luck, can put out a respectible amount of shooting.

At that point level things can get pretty rough. Against hordes, you need the volume of fire from big warrior sqauds. Hiding them in arks is a good place to start so boyz can't reach them.

That is what I am thinking as well. However, if he brings Battlewagons and I don't have an Doomsday Ark, I will probably be screwed. The ABs have Str 7 so I would not even be able to glance it to death with those.

[Alsiaie]

That is what I am thinking as well. However, if he brings Battlewagons and I don't have an Doomsday Ark, I will probably be screwed. The ABs have Str 7 so I would not even be able to glance it to death with those.

Since it's nearly the same cost and if you're expecting a lot of wagons, perhaps consider heavy destroyers instead of the ark. If he's going the wagon route, I would fully expect more than one. That means a lot less shooting from the orks. 3 Heavy destroyers are pretty much the same cost as a d.ark. They also have the ability to reach side armor depending on deployment due to their speed. You can also bank on trying to win by attrition if he's spamming wagons at that point value. The more wagons, the less boyz. You could just load up on maximum bodies as infidel mentioned. Throw in some cheap a-barges and maybe a 90 point 6-man scarab unit to tackle any surprises.

[madival]

Annihilation barges will work and use the extra points for more warriors. Warriors are a great AT. They can death with battle wagons. Doomsday arks are vest used for fire lanes, but you don't have a set up to capitalize on that

[amrogers3]

Thanks for input guys. Much appreciated. I don't know what to expect actually, foot, wagons, shooting, etc. so I should prepare for any type of Ork list.

Which of the following would be recommended? If none, post how you would change.

If I include the CCB, I would have 4 scoring units. How do you feel about 5 man units?

Option 1

1 Overlord
1 Catacomb Command Barge

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

1 Annihilation Barge
1 Annihilation Barge
1 Annihilation Barge

Total Roster Cost: 990

Option 2

1 Overlord

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

6 Scarabs

1 Annihilation Barge
1 Annihilation Barge
1 Annihilation Barge

Total Roster Cost: 1000

Option 3

1 Overlord w/ CCB

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

5 Warriors
1 Ghost Ark

6 Scarabs

1 Annihilation Barge
1 Annihilation Barge

Total Roster Cost: 990

Thanks again.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

Monoliths are still fine if you don't have triple barge. Just because triple barge is the cheapest/easiest thing to do to make a list good doesn't mean every list must go there.

Either way, I'd about quadruple or quintuple your body count rather than having no guns on the field. As a side note, you can't handle battle-wagons. And.. why on earth are you min-maxing warriors? Ghost arks are not good for that. the only time you'd min-max them is to do lance-sniper squads or something. Go for squads of 10 in arks, 10-15 in scythes, 20 on foot (or less if you can't get the points/models.)

Honestly you should have about 30ish warriors and another 10-20 warriors or immortals by 1000 pts IMO. there's no reason not to (since they cover AT duty to some degree) and you NEED the anti infantry fire.

[Infidel]

If you're worried about battle wagon, I'd just introduce them to Gauss. 6s on the armour pen will shave off a HP, against AV12 each of your gauss flayer shots hits like a krak missile.

[russellmoo]

I don't think you need to worry that much about Orks- Necrons are a pretty good match-up against the green skins- the real key is to just take a lot of troops- you will terribly out range him and as long as you can slow down anything hard hitting- like biker nobz or battlewagons- you will be able to just shoot him to death- possibly before he even sees close combat-

[Infidel]

I don't think you need to worry that much about Orks- Necrons are a pretty good match-up against the green skins- the real key is to just take a lot of troops- you will terribly out range him and as long as you can slow down anything hard hitting- like biker nobz or battlewagons- you will be able to just shoot him to death- possibly before he even sees close combat-

Idealy. But with T5 from Nob bikers and a 4+ cover save against ranged shooting, it can be difficult to take down large biker mobs, and they'd make a mess of things once they're close.

Ghost Arks are not idea for MSU abuse. If you want to play that style, take fliers. Keep in mind that loota is still ruthlessly efficient against fliers.

[Mandragola]

Annihilation barges deal with nobz bikers fine. They get a ton of hits which wound on 2s and the orks only get a 4+ save. Annihilation barges actually deal with almost anything in the ork codex.

Wraiths with a destroyer lord in the unit are mean as well. They can smash vehicles and munch ork boyz in assault. They are pretty strong against nobz too.

Then you just need some troops. Warriors in arks or immortals with tesla will be fine.

But as russellmoo says, so long as you don't do anything crazy like taking doomsday arks, orks are a very easy match up for necrons.

[Alsiaie]

With the change to LOS! rules and thanks to the designer note in the FAQ, nob bike units become less scary. A lot less in my opinion. Nobs are no longer characters unless they are leading a unit. So a nob biker unit led by a warboss got a significant nerf.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

If you're worried about battle wagon, I'd just introduce them to Gauss. 6s on the armour pen will shave off a HP, against AV12 each of your gauss flayer shots hits like a krak missile.

This is essentially my point. Right now he has.. 30ish gauss shots (if we're being generous.) My suggestion puts him up to about double that, plus enough anti-infantry fire to deal with a horde of boyz that he'll have to kill at somepoint. As a side note, you meant AV14; against AV12 we hit like a GL

Annihilation barges deal with nobz bikers fine. They get a ton of hits which wound on 2s and the orks only get a 4+ save. Annihilation barges actually deal with almost anything in the ork codex.

Then you just need some troops. Warriors in arks or immortals with tesla will be fine.

orks are a very easy match up for necrons.

I would say this:
-The bikers still have FnP if someone is already shelling out for them. Two wounds still takes a bit to bore through. They're basically 3+ saves so.. use that for estimation.

-Immortals with Tesla? Hasn't it been shown (elsewhere) that Gauss is basically strictly better except when snap-firing? Especially when Orks only have 4+ saves at best.

-I don't know if I agree with this. Necron shooting is good, but I'd have to see it all play out to get a good idea. The main issue here is that Orks get a range advantage on 'Crons. By the time you're shooting, they've been shooting at you for a turn or two and nightfighting doesn't even help. With utter protection from Barges and the inability to get Gauss close without suiciding I'd say it's a harder matchup than you make out, even with Heavy D's or other rare choices. Further, Orks choke battlefields which limit the effectiveness of Necron mobility.

A good example of what I mean is my 1850 orks; toting 140ish bodies and 25ish big shootas, just from outside your range you have:
20-60 loota shots = 6-20 hits = 5-16.6 saves => 1-4 stay down
75 big shoota shots = 25 hits = 16.5 saves => 4 stay down

Add in 80+ shootas, some skorchas, etc..
Add in tankbustas to help with AV13
Add in that Scythes are doomed to go down against Lootas (weight of fire is a major player here)

And I'd say Orks should do well. Elite armies that are stuck in the 24" range of Necrons seem like the sweet spot. They can't pick you off, they're weaker than you, they only have comparable shooting, they're less mobile. I.E. Marines suffer. Eldar sort of suffer. Orks, DE, IG do not.

[Infidel]

This is essentially my point. Right now he has.. 30ish gauss shots (if we're being generous.) My suggestion puts him up to about double that, plus enough anti-infantry fire to deal with a horde of boyz that he'll have to kill at somepoint. As a side note, you meant AV14; against AV12 we hit like a GL

Derp.

I would say this:
-The bikers still have FnP if someone is already shelling out for them. Two wounds still takes a bit to bore through. They're basically 3+ saves so.. use that for estimation.

-Immortals with Tesla? Hasn't it been shown (elsewhere) that Gauss is basically strictly better except when snap-firing? Especially when Orks only have 4+ saves at best.

-I don't know if I agree with this. Necron shooting is good, but I'd have to see it all play out to get a good idea. The main issue here is that Orks get a range advantage on 'Crons. By the time you're shooting, they've been shooting at you for a turn or two and nightfighting doesn't even help. With utter protection from Barges and the inability to get Gauss close without suiciding I'd say it's a harder matchup than you make out, even with Heavy D's or other rare choices. Further, Orks choke battlefields which limit the effectiveness of Necron mobility.

A good example of what I mean is my 1850 orks; toting 140ish bodies and 25ish big shootas, just from outside your range you have:
20-60 loota shots = 6-20 hits = 5-16.6 saves => 1-4 stay down
75 big shoota shots = 25 hits = 16.5 saves => 4 stay down

Add in 80+ shootas, some skorchas, etc..
Add in tankbustas to help with AV13
Add in that Scythes are doomed to go down against Lootas (weight of fire is a major player here)

And I'd say Orks should do well. Elite armies that are stuck in the 24" range of Necrons seem like the sweet spot. They can't pick you off, they're weaker than you, they only have comparable shooting, they're less mobile. I.E. Marines suffer. Eldar sort of suffer. Orks, DE, IG do not.

I agree on Orks, less on IG and DE. DE relies heavily on their mech to be effective, which forces them to play like a small elite army anyway. Besides, their fragility puts them in the odd place where you can't field as many body as you would in a hordey army and don't have the save to be durable (4+ is the minimum).

As for IG, the strength of infantry IG + arty support is self-evident, but the carry-over from 5th means we still see plenty of chimera - and mech guard is still as effective as ever so I don't foresee a mass exodus of mechguards.

As for greenskin, we're in agreement. It seems the only thing to deal with the really hordey list is to load up as many warriors as you can in Ghost Arks and try to kill them before they break the transport. There is a way to deal with Loota with necron fliers - nightscythe can drop squads of warrior and between them and the tesla destructors (and deathray if you have them), you should be able to destroy enough loota to allow all your fliers to statistically survive a turn.

With that said - 5 lords with GoF in Ghost Arks has the potential to be hilarious against hordey things.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

As for my list; I keep BWs as HS whenever I can so lootas can load up in a BW. Hard to crack and makes LOS to targets easy. I'd be quite worried about Doom Scythes for this tactic; so it depends on the list how I'd approach such an issue. My typical list is some variation on:

KFF
Cheap Boss
MANz (troops) (5-6 with 2-3 skorchas. They may be a little smaller if I really need the points.)
2x10ish lootas
squad of tankbustas (size varies, depends on points..)
loadsa shootas (70-80ish) (In 6th I'm currently not taking nob leaders. This is something I'm still iffy about.)
6xkanz with skorchas
2x BWs (one potentially dedicated to MANz. I imagine in 6th I'd drop to 3xkanz more often to get the second wagon into HS if under 2000, however I've only played large games with the Orks in 6th.)

(as a side note, it looks more like 110-120 bodies. I'm used to having another squad right now I guess. (20 lootas, 80 shootas, 10-15 tankbustas, 6 kanz, 6 manz, 2hq, 2 wagons =>120-130; give or take depending on points technicalities as I fit stuff in)

Hence my mention. As I look at a lot of lists brought up online I normally compare it to that one as it's the most directed towards competitiveness of my list types. Were I quite serious I'd probably use the points of the bumped-off kanz to re-add the dedicated wagon for 3xkanz, 3xwagons.

Either way, we're basically in agreement. The scythes bit will largely depend on how much the orks can get away with keeping the lootas alive or how spammed the big shootas are. I'm debating adding meks with big shootas for repairing wagons too. It seems brutal if they can't get the wagon in one go and well.. I'm a sucker for big shootas..

[amrogers3]

Thanks for replies fellas.

What about this:
am I on the right track here?


OPTION 1 (996 pts)

Overlord, Warscythe + Catacomb Command Barge - 180

2x Court, Harbinger of Destruction - 70

Warriors x5 + Ghost Ark - 180
Warriors x6 + Ghost Ark - 180
Warriors x6 + Ghost Ark - 180

Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90

OPTION 2 (990 pts)

Overlord, Warscythe + Catacomb Command Barge - 180

Warriors x5 + Ghost Ark - 180
Warriors x5 + Ghost Ark - 180
Warriors x5 + Ghost Ark - 180

Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90

OPTION 3 (998 pts)

Overlord, Warscythe + Catacomb Command Barge - 180

2x Court, Harbinger of Destruction - 70

Warriors x5 + Ghost Ark - 180
Warriors x5 + Ghost Ark - 180
Warriors x8
Warriors x8

Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

I still say you need a few more bodies. Something more like:

120 - Lord, Orb
130 - 10x warriors
570 - 2x{10x Warriors, Ark}
180 - 2x Barge

A bit bland maybe, but it gets your numbers up a bit. Orks will be a war of attrition; you need bodies to win it. Shortcutting bodies for firepower will usually result in them getting to you (if they even want/have to) and you'll have a bad time.

[Weirdboy]

Against Orks at that point range, I would be inclined to take a crapload of Immortals and a Royal Court for support.