Flyer zooming off the board.

[Mwilson109]

Short question that im pretty sure on but just checking.

Can a flyer zoom off the board in the same trun in which it arives from reserve?
Effectively flying off one of the side edges so i can show up next turn as i dont want to be on the table this turn.

Thanks
- Max

[Alsiaie]

Yes it can. Just place the tape measure from point A to Point B to show your opponent the path moves the flyer at least 18" if it becomes an issue. It can leave the table form any board edge.

[Chapters Unwritten]

You got a page number for that? As far as I know that is not an express thing the rules address.

[ehlijen]

I could have sworn there was a specific rule that prohibited that, but I can't find it right now. Best I can offer for now is that the reserve rules require that any unit arriving from reserves must move "Fully onto the table".

[Linoosthelost]

p.80 second paragraph under "zoom":
"In a turn in witch a Flyer enters the board from reserve it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it of the board again"

So answer is no.
however it says nothing of Flat Out, but I would assume that it can't leave the board in that case either...

[Spiney Norman]

p.80 second paragraph under "zoom":
"In a turn in witch a Flyer enters the board from reserve it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it of the board again"

So answer is no.
however it says nothing of Flat Out, but I would assume that it can't leave the board in that case either...

You can't ever move off the board via flat out. The general rule is that you cannot voluntarily leave the board (p. 10), the rules for zoom movement specifically do allow you to voluntarily leave the board but only as part of your zoom move (I.e in the move phase).

You can leave combat airspace when performing a zoom move except on the turn you arrive.

[Infidel]

...the rules for zoom movement specifically do allow you to voluntarily leave the board but only as part of your zoom move (I.e in the move phase).

That's not how I'd read it. The initial movement resulting from arriving via reserve cannot take you off the board, but this restriction does not extend to flat out. Is flat out suddenly not a move? It's called a flat out "move" and futher explicated under the heading "Zooming and Flat Out". Until I see a faq ruling otherwise, I'd allow it. Think about it, when you fly "normal" speed you're allowed to leave the board and suddenly now that you're moving extra fast, and you couldn't?

[Alsiaie]

p.80 second paragraph under "zoom":
"In a turn in witch a Flyer enters the board from reserve it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it of the board again"

So answer is no.
however it says nothing of Flat Out, but I would assume that it can't leave the board in that case either...

Whoops missed that. Yay for late light! I would argue it works with flat out. Both Flat out and Zooming is moving. I had this discussion a while back locally and we all determined moving is physically moving the model any any point in the game. This is supported by the fact dangerous terrain is triggered when models move and there are examples in the BRB where dangerous is triggered outside the movement phase. But regardless of the argument, Page 80 implies the "resulting move" is the initial move from the board edge. Once the flyer stops moving, that resulting move is completed. A flat out is a new move action and would allow it to be taken off the board in the same turn.

[ehlijen]

I think the main point of the rule is to prevent flyers from avoiding interceptor shots by moving off the table again immediately, so I don't think disallowing it for flat out is a big deal.

That said, I'm not sure the rules support that interpretation, nor that they don't.

[Infidel]

I think the main point of the rule is to prevent flyers from avoiding interceptor shots by moving off the table again immediately, so I don't think disallowing it for flat out is a big deal.

That said, I'm not sure the rules support that interpretation, nor that they don't.

You've nailed it. Most of the time it just doens't matter, and when it does, rule can really be read either way. Rule book doesn't really say this one way or the other but there is absolutely no reason to think that "move" happens exclusively in the movement phase. You have conditions/actions such as run, "assault move", flat out, pile in, consolidation, fall back etc that are all forms of movement that occurs outside of the movement phase.

I'm firmly in the camp that any movement is, well, a "move".

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

How can we argue about rules if you go about being logical Infidel?

(A.K.A. I agree with what he's posted thus far. Moves are moves as shown in a vast multitude of other rules/rulings (things like the Nightspinner)

Without my BYB on (hand) I can't double check things, but it looks like from the quotes that you're allowed to go off the board in Flat Out mode. If not, it's as inf says, it's ambiguous. The RAW may be able to stick to the rules quote, but it's hard to tell.

[Coredump]

I love when people 'agree' that a written rule is ambiguous, when they don't even have their book to read the actual rule..

Anyway, The rules allow you to leave airspace when "making a Zoom move". It does not say you may do so while moving Flat Out.

A 'Zoom move' is described above, it is described separately from the Flat Out movement.

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

I love when people 'agree' that a written rule is ambiguous, when they don't even have their book to read the actual rule...

Given that the rules quote is in the second post or so; I don't see why trusting someone to type what was in the book when i don't have my book on hand is foolish. If that quote has been correctly re-printed in this thread then why can't I agree, based on the relevant quoted rules, that it's ambiguous?

[Nurgling Chieftain]

"Zoom move" does not appear anywhere else in the rules; Coredump's claim that this is a specific reference to a section describing movement phase moves is just plain false (and a bit ironic given his statement about reading the actual rule). Therefore it is two terms, not one - Zoom and Move. Since Flat Out is in this case both Zooming and a Move, I don't see any reason why Leaving Combat Airspace should be restricted to movement phase moves.

[Coredump]

Really??

"Flyers can usually only make a special kind of move called Zoom."

So we *do* have a definition of what 'zoom' is, it is a special move. Aka, a 'zoom move'.
Sure sounds like a 'zoom move' to me? If not, what is it?

"If a Flyer Zooms, it has a Combat Speed of 18" and a Cruising Speed of 36"."
"a Zooming Flyer can never voluntarily move less than 18"."


Exactly where is the rule saying that Flat Out is "zooming"? Because if it does say that, you can never Flat Out less than 18"
If Flat Out is also a 'zoom move', then you can't do it in Hover... and neither can any skimmer...or tank...

Also note, the section on Zoom, which defines it as a special kind of 'move'... mentions *nothing* about Flat Out.
The Flat Out section, mentions a flyer that is 'zooming'; which is odd if Flat Out was a 'zoom move'.


The section on Leaving Airspace, does *not* reference a 'zooming flyer', it *specifically* mentions "making a zoom move".

So yeah, I read the rules... and even quoted a few of them. Where does it say that Flat Out is a zoom move??

[Infidel]

"Flyers can usually only make a special kind of move called Zoom."

So, Flat Out is a move made by a Zooming flyer. Why does that suddenly make it not a zoom move by your definition?

[Spiney Norman]

"Flyers can usually only make a special kind of move called Zoom."

So, Flat Out is a move made by a Zooming flyer. Why does that suddenly make it not a zoom move by your definition?

Because the rules for zooming are very different to the rules for going flat out
A zoom move must be at least 18" and not more than 36"
A flat out move must be at least 12" and not more than 24"

And your argument is that zoom move= flat out move? The two are governed by totally different rules

Under normal circumstances you cannot voluntarily move a model off the board (p.10) and I can't anywhere find a rule which permits you to leave the board voluntarily when making a flat out move. Maybe you could quote?

[The_Klobb_Maniac]

That's not his argument. I think you may understand his argument but you make it absurd by turning it into a 4 word summation. His argument is that it is a zooming flyer that is performing a move and that this is also under the section of zooming flyers and flat out. This is a link between the two rules he (and NC) posit and that given that it IS zooming and IS a move that one could construct it as a Zoom Move. This is hardly as ridiculous as you and Segfault make it out to be.

[Spiney Norman]

Isnt it? The wording isn't even ambiguous here, it doesn't say "it is quite likely a zooming flyer will leave the board" it says "it is quite likely a flyer making a zoom move will leave the board"

The zoom move is precisely defined on p.80 as a move at least 18" in length, with a maximum of 36"
A flat out move is a different move that may be performed by a zooming flyer (I.e. a flyer that has zoomed) but that does not make it a "zoom move", and nowhere is it defined as such.

[Coredump]

"Flyers can usually only make a special kind of move called Zoom."

So, Flat Out is a move made by a Zooming flyer. Why does that suddenly make it not a zoom move by your definition?

Same reason a Run by gargoyles do not benefit from jump packs.
You are a zooming flyer, because you made a zoom move. That does not mean that all movement is a zoom move.