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Thread: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

  1. #1
    Chapter Master Ronin_eX's Avatar
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    The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    I was getting kind of down that the big thread on the front page (other than the Necron morass) is one that houses nothing but people who dislike where 6th Edition went and people who enjoy it ranting at each other like some kind of bitchy Ouroboros. I figure there is no reason to crap up a thread specifically for talking about things one dislikes about 6th Edition when we could be talking about what we like about it. As someone who wasn't a fan of the last decade or so of 40k I can comiserate with just wanting to complain about it without having to constantly get shouted down by the vox populi. So let's leave 'em to it and actually discuss things we enjoy about 6th Edition!

    Now, quick background from me, but I have been a staunch 2nd Edition player for a while now. I enjoyed the more narrative approach, the higher degree of "Fog of War" randomness that hearkened back to older wargames (including Rogue Trader). I also enjoyed how the bits of the system in 2nd seemed to have more decision points and more interactivity from turn to turn. I gave most every edition a fair shake but I always wandered back to 2nd after realizing the games weren't giving me what I wanted out of a 40k game.

    But 6th hooked me early and has managed to keep me so far without me immediately finding half a dozen reasons to ditch it and go back to 2nd again.

    But in addition to the re-addition of narrative/weirdness factor (psychic powers, warlord abilities reminiscent of Strategy Cards, etc.) it also (in my eyes) brought back a lot of more interactive system bits that I enjoyed out of 2nd. In the movement phase you have several new tools. Firing heavy weapons on the move (I love this as a new addition) and the ability to keep the heavy weapon stationary while moving the squad (helpful because rotating specific units to the front or back of your unit matters in this addition) and most importantly the way shooting casualties are removed mean that going for flanking or rear attacks can have a variety of effects on a unit. So movement sees more emphasis on maneuver rather than just being simply about range control as it had been before.

    In the shooting phase selective firing at specific levels of cover and the previous turn's maneuver can have a large effect on how your shooting goes and as a non-active player, your own maneuvering and position during your last movement phase can also have a large effect. The fix to rapid fire weapons has allowed the engagement envelope to open up to 2nd Edition levels again and now firefights between whole units (not just their heavy weapons) can occur over multiple turns rather than just one (since previously most units with Rapid Fire weapons were on the move so much that they often never fired a shot over 12" and were charged the next enemy turn). So shooting has become a lot more dynamic, but this pales in comparison to how awesome assault became (in my humble opinion of course).

    Ah, assault, the phase that decision making forgot. In almost every previous edition, when a unit became locked in combat, your ability to do anything with them other than roll dice ended. But thanks to pile-ins at the initiative step, challenges, and a more selective casualty taking system; assault has become a phase that continues to reward smart use of maneuver and position. You can use challenges as a stalling tactic or for assassination of key characters. You can use selective unit engagement to keep low-initiative units near the edges of combat until they are needed. You can charge units from certain directions to force them to lose specialists. And of course with Overwatch in the mix you actually have to weigh the pros and cons of getting in to combat or staying out and shooting. It is no longer a binary yes/no that only depends on whether you think you can take the enemy squad in hand-to-hand. Properly built defensive units will now be tough nuts to crack and require lateral thinking to properly engage.

    And of course, for the first time in over a decade the game actually has a built-in psychic system beyond just a leadership test and rules of Perils of the warp. They made psykers a little more risky to take (which is and always has been very in-setting for 40k) and made it so you may not get the exact tools you wanted (but the tools will almost always be useful; or at least will be once we get books that are designed to use the system). I can't wait to see a codex actually designed to be used with the basic system as all we have right now is a bailing wire and bubblegum solution to work with until proper codices come out.

    But enough gushing about the rules. The reason I love 6th Edition is because playing it creates more of those "remember when..." stories than any other edition I have played since 2nd. So part of the point of this thread is to share yours, because part of the reason I love this hobby is the in-game stories that happen, emergently, in general play.

    My two favourites so far were a game where my friends had Black Templar running against Space Wolves and a central objective became an utter quagmire as it housed a gravity warping generator. Two Black Templar crusader squads got on to it (along with the EC) and proceeded to re-enact the marine-mountain scene that even the Crimson Fists would be proud of. They held the objective against two Wolf Guard terminator squads tooled for assault. The first contained a generic Wolf Lord and the other contained Grimnar himself. The EC challenged both to combat and killed each of them, only succumbing to his wounds after dispatching Logan in single combat. What remained were a few Initiates and Neophytes standing atop the best and brightest the Space Wolves could throw at them.

    My other favourite is one I was on the receiving end of, but I loved it because in any other edition since 1999 I would have continued my steam roll. Belial and his tooled-up command squad dropped in to some ruins near a Tau battle line. The unit quickly tore through a squad of Broadsides and held the objective while an ally moved up troops to take it. The Tau commander and his squad of battlesuits moved toward the flank and fire began to pour in to Belial's squad from every direction. But a combination of 2+ saves and 5+FNP saw a Belial and the Standard Bearer standing tall (both had thunder hammers and storm shields, I figured that was a good bet when facing down a battlesuit squad toting twin-linked fusion guns). The battlesuits made a fairly good roll to shuffle back. I needed a 9 to hit charge range with them, I knew it was a big risk but I went for it... I rolled a 10! But first Overwatch fire needed to be resolved. After a flurry of close rolls I find that I need to save against two attacks. I throw the dice and they come up 1 and 2. Belial and the Standard Bearer rush forward like madmen, but are cut down by a hail of accurate fusion bolts from the Tau commander. It kind of felt like the final battle scene in The Last Samurai. It was worth it just to realize that at that point in older editions I would have been rolling up the Tau line, but this time I was punked by the Tau commander in karmic retribution for all those times he was torn apart in combat over the last several years. I could do nothing but laugh for the next five minutes (the beer helped with this ). It was made slightly more hilarious because earlier in the game my lone Ravenwing sergeant was lost in a similar matter charging a Fire Warrior squad. We decided ill-fated charges were my theme that day.

    Oh and I can't forget my own personal moment of glory in the same game. One of my other Deathwing squads is busy dealing with several other Tau units. Earlier in the game the Fire Warrior squad rolled that their objective was booby trapped. But it had failed to go off every turn. In the fourth turn I charge the hapless squad and they go down. That same turn the explosives finally go off... my Deathwing are unscathed but now feel like the A Team. I wish something could explode every time my Deathwing succeed.

    I can't wait to play more an see what other oddities occur between our own best laid schemes and what the table decides to throw at us.

  2. #2
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    having only played a few games, i have to say i like it.

    I like the changes made, it makes things feel more dynamic, and more reminiscent of 2nd edition.

    The last game i had i used SKyclaws, they were chasin down a small selection of DE vehicles, which for some reason had ended up all bunched together, 2 venoms and a raider, deciding to multicharge, i was met with scorn by my opponent with him stating " ha! you fool no extra attacks for you!" however as the vehicles were empty, they could not overwatch me, and my response was "why do i want to use my normal attacks, i have hammer of wrath & grenades" at which point the 10 man sky claw unit took out all 3 vehicles in 1 round.

    This is some thing that could have been done in 3rd-5th edition, but the actual way it played out felt more narrative, the skyclaws leapt at there enemies, causing damage by landing on the light vehicles, before priming the grenades, and leaping away! doing a slow-mo saunter away as the skimmers crashed to the ground behind them!

    The thing is both me and my opponent came up with the same scene, and both were happy with the outcome, as it felt right!

    I like 6th, To me its the worthy succesor to 2nd, its just a pity its taken so long to come about.

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    Chapter Master Erazmus_M_Wattle's Avatar
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    I'd say there's no specific rules that I love more than any other. It's the fact that, for me at least, the rules set as a whole are much more intuitive. Some of the rules seem quite complex on paper but feel much more natural and well, obvious. The close combat rules are a good example of this. The wound allocation rules are similar in that regard.

    I lied. The vehicle damage rules do stand out as my favourites. I particularly like the hull points. I think they're great. Maybe the hull points maybe need tweaked slightly. Maybe. I like that loss of hull points represent general damage while penetrating hits represent specific systems damage. At least I only have one damage table to try and memorise now.

    My opinion; best forty thousand rules set to date.

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    Commander Shadow Lord's Avatar
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    I love 6th! These are my reasons:
    1. Allies...just love it that I can now take IG, Daemons or even DE's with my CSM's...this gives me a great opportunity to have a more fluff-based approach to 40k, which I like more then the competitive approach.
    2. USR's: I have the feeling that the USR's are more in balance then in former editions and actually represent different abilities better.
    3. Warlord Traits and Psychic power randomness...excellent move, step away from the "always take this = autowin" thing and have some *******' randomness thrown in so that players actually need to think more about using a trait or power!
    4. Hull points: yes, I'm a fan.

    Thers' more stuff in that I like, but these are the most obvious ones for me! Glad to see a tread about this hobby that actually supports it and not just breaks it down and tramples on it just because it's the fasionable thing to do...now give me a good C:CSM's and I'm in heaven (or The Eye of Terror to be more precise...)
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    had a great time the other day.... a unit of terminators deep strikes in with a librarian guns down the allied grey hunters that were guarding a relic objective. response to this is a leman russ exterminator rumbles around the corner with a blob of guard, together they gun down the termies and leave the librarian to 1 wound. In a desperate last act the librarian runs upto the leman russ hits it with his force staff, blows up the leman russ and the resulting explosion finishes off the librarian.

    a few things here that wouldn't have happened under the old rules, firstly never would have taken an exterminator! but came in really handy (it also shot down a storm talon) for giving close fire support to advancing guard, it's fire never would've been that effective after moving. Also the librarian would have been unlikely to take out the leman russ as would've only had strength 4 instead of 6 and would have only hit on 4s instead of 3s

    ... Love the 6th ed...

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    Chapter Master Treadhead_1st's Avatar
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    I'll just copy+paste my reply from the other thread:

    Eh, I prefer 6th Edition to any of the others I've yet played (well, possibly excepting 4th, as a couple of my armies actually had a Codex then)!

    5th became very stagnant very quickly - whilst I will always do my utmost to win, a force that matches the background for the army holds an awful lot more appeal for me than the latest downloaded one (after all, when it is not being used it sits in a display cabinet, and having 30+ similar units is unexciting), and this edition has done more to balance a fluffy-competitive force with a fully competitive one. Nowadays, actually playing well seems to make a difference against Grey Knights and Space Wolves. Have vehicles taken a knock? Yes. However, I feel the decrying of vehicles as "useless" or "noob-bait" (as I have delightfully seen them referred to) is an incredibly short-sighted response - they still provide many vital support aspects for the infantry, and you might actually have to use them as part of a combined-arms mutually supporting force, rather than expecting them to carry the day on their own.

    That is not to say that some armies are without problems - the changes to assaulting from reserves has kicked Dark Eldar in the shins a bit (though thankfully they now have AP2 CC weapons again), the changes to assaulting after disembarkation have really kicked the Eldar hard, Black Templars have been horrifically neutered...these latter two will undoubtedly be fixed by new Codex releases (and if we can judge by the Necron Codex and Warhammer Fantasy Army Books, no doubt they will be powerful, competitive, fluffy armies well-balanced against their contemporaries) and the former was rather potent.

    I must say, I am greatly amused that people are complaining that assault is worthless these days because of random charge ranges and Overwatch; when last edition and 4th I regularly heard that shooting was worthless compared to an assault army, unless said shooting was all in some sort of metal box (to avoid the assault army). I think the shooting/combat sides of things are quite balanced now - shooting will hurt like hell, particularly if you assault recklessly from long-range, yet there are inbuilt mechanisms for avoiding it - don't want your Wyches getting blown to pieces? First assault with Beast-packs/Talos. Don't want your Death Company facing 90+ Lasgun shots? Throw a Dreadnought at them first. Yes, sometimes the dice-gods will muck up a perfect charge - but given that is something that Fantasy has adapted to very well over the last couple of years (despite similar, if not even more, levels of complaint and abuse hurled at GW about it) I honestly do not see it becoming such a problem. It is just another factor that will have to be borne in mind when designing the army list and your battle-plan: Do you take one 600 point combat-unit-of-death, or would it be a better choice to take two slightly-weaker 300 point units for the redundancy instead? Both are now viable options, on a risk-reward basis.

    Overall, I am more excited about 40K than I have been in a very long time. All that is tempering my excitement are the Mysterious Terrain rules (which, being in their own section and the rulebook tells you to modify it as you wish, are essentially optional) and my lack of funds after finishing university. But the actual game mechanics have, in my humble opinion, balanced the game very well and offer up new tactical challenges to overcome whilst making many unseen units far more viable without totally reversing the abilities of the commonly seen ones of 5th Edition.
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    There's more logic to most of it. That's not to say it's logical, it's still 40K. But by and large, there's less outright flipping the bird to reality than there was in 5th ed (well, except by the woefully misguided ATSKNF rules), which helps you emotionally invest in the battle a bit more. Plus the background bits of the rulebook were much, much better than the equivalents in 5th, setting the scene much better.
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  8. #8
    Chaplain Erik_Morkai's Avatar
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    Love the 6th ed.

    Allies makes this edition less cookie-cutter than the 5th.

    Love the overall changes, disliked a few but I shrug it off and roll with it. Those are the rules, adapt, survive, thrive.

  9. #9
    Chaplain arthurfallz's Avatar
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    Overall, I like it. I will happily admit my 40k experience is limited (played one game, watched a ton, been reading the books a lot). I picked up 5th edition last year, read it and was ready to play, but my own group was busy with fantasy, so it never came around. Now that 6th edition is out, my friends who had given up on 40k have revived interest in it. I've even got a friend in.

    My impression so far is that as an 8th edition WHFB player, it's very familiar. The turn flow feels better now. But if 5th was out, I would still want to play. I can't say that 6th is superior, 5th is inferior, but I can say that I like 6th, and after my initial hatred of 8th WHFB (and trying to go back to 7th), I have learned to give new editions of rules some time to sink in. And once they have, house rules the parts that suck.
    I reserve the right to change my opinion the moment I am proven wrong; that's called learning.
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  10. #10

    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    I've only played one game of 6th, but I love 6th ed.

    So many reasons, as others have pointed out. No point in repetitive gushing I guess.

    But I can add that for the first time in a long time, it feels like a game again. Win or lose, this edition is much more satisfying to play than 3rd, 4th, or 5th. I haven't been this enthused about the hobby since being introduced to 2nd edition.

  11. #11

    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    6th edition got it's charm. A lot of what I thought would change did, like weaker cover save and mech nerf. Other than that I thought the changes would be bigger. Playing 5th after playing 4th was quite different. 6th kind of feels like 5.5 edition to me.

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    Chapter Master Haravikk's Avatar
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    I dunno about love it, but I definitely enjoy 6th edition far more than I've enjoyed any of 3rd, 4th and 5th; it's kept the same simplified mechanics of 3rd, but 6th feels a lot less like we've lost what we had in 2nd edition. Instead it's a still fairly easy going ruleset, but with the scope and options of 2nd. List building is more interesting again, and I'm fairly optimistic for the new codexes as they have a lot of fun new rules to build on, and I'm hoping they're going to approach them similarly to fantasy's 8th edition army books, which are pretty well balanced.

    Lots of little improvements, maybe a little too much of a boost to armies with massed shooting, but firing Rapid Fire on the move might just help discourage static gunlines and get some manoeuvring back into the game. I'm not too impressed by Flyers, and a whole page for Flying Monstrous Creatures?! But against people who don't abuse them they can be fun, as can allies which are a great way for my Sisters of Battle to get some proper scouts (and Legion of the Damned )!

    I love how messy and bewildering the wargear and allies tables are… wait sorry that's sarcasm, but I am taking the allies table as a guideline only, that thing just doesn't make any sense otherwise

    But it's definitely been more fun, and having terminators feel more like terminators again is very nice; I was getting a bit annoyed by how easily death cult assassins mowed down terminator squads for less than half the points!

  13. #13
    Commander Faeslayer's Avatar
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    Love it. Love the scenarios, love the allies, love exploding objectives and creepy forests. Things had gotten really stale at the end of 5th... and now I find myself eager to get the next game in.

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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    -Allies give me more counts as oppurtunities (for modelling)
    -Double FOC gives me more options to bring units I like and not just max out anti-tank in armies like Orks (who don't have spare room at times)
    -Tanks being more killable is just.. enjoyable. I can take things like Deathmarks or load up on Burnas, or bring more melee to the fight if I wish. It doesn't matter! I can actually smack a tank in CC rather than 7" being nigh untouchable. I hated having something like stormboyz useless against entire armies simply because they couldn't hit a vehicle and they couldn't survive anything else. Now they can.. well.. sort of... do stuff.
    -Casualty removal is neat
    -Less abusable (imo) rules are neat.
    -That they actually tried to build a good special rules section and such. They're slowly getting to where the rule set will.. maybe.. in 20 years.. be well-defined. FAQs are more frequent at the moment as well, which has been nice.


    I'll probably come back and say some more.

  15. #15
    I'm loving it. Flyers, flanking and challenges are some of my favourite mechanics.

  16. #16
    Chapter Master Dangersaurus's Avatar
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    Love it. Allies are back, random weirdness is back, grenades are back, wargear cards are back (whoops, not yet).

    Congrats to Troke, Vetock & Ward on a job well done.

  17. #17
    Chapter Master Ronin_eX's Avatar
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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    Ah, yes, grenades coming back as usable weapons in shooting is another great addition (and the compromise is pretty good for making them usable without bogging things down, like 2nd Edition would if a whole unit decided to toss frag grenades). It makes units with access to grenades feel like they have a more varied number of options when they get close.

    And as it stands I love that vehicles seem to be slowly, but surely, moving toward a damage system closer to other units. I like that killing them isn't merely a probablistic system and that it has some deterministic bits to it now. But more than anything I like that I now actually get to use my vehicles rather than having them stun-locked every turn. If the enemy wants to remove them then they actually need to concentrate fire, stunning is no longer something one can count on from simply glancing. So in terms of use from turn to turn, even if my vehicles may go down a bit sooner, in that time they are doing more than a vehicle would to in the entire game. This actually serves to make non-transports useful again since they can maintain range on infantry and act as mobile gun platforms (especially considering they can snap-fire weapons they would normally not be able to shoot with while on the move). So if the choice is between having a vehicle that lasts to the end of the game almost every time but that does nothing and having a vehicle that will likely die if I put it in risky situations, but during that time it is actually earning its points back, I know which system I would choose.

    The change does screw over some units (mostly venerable dreadnaughts who will need some kind of reworking under the new damage system) and it does have an impact on light transports (but those are almost universally cheap in modern codices so no big deal either) the new system does nothing but help tanks that relied on shooting things to be useful.

    My Vindicator is an awesome example of this principle. We were playing a doubles game. I was allied with the BT player and we were facing off against Tau and Space Wolves (an odd pairing, to be sure, but it is what everyone brought on short notice). I decided to test vehicles out this game and brought my support dread (TL lascannon and ML) and my Vindicator which had been gathering dust because for the last few editions it tended to fire once and then get stunlocked the rest of the game. This game was different though. It went flat out in the first turn to get in to position and over the course of the next three turns it fired a shot every turn and over the course of the game made its points back and then some. It came under nearly constant fire but because most of the shots coming from the Tau were only glancing it (and because I locked down the Broadsides early), it was able to keep up a steady barrage of fire on the Wolf Guard that had landed in the back field. It managed to kill about twice its cost in WG terminators before it was finally assaulted and destroyed. Hilariously it only died because I brought it in close so that he would either have to charge it and delay assaulting the unit on the objective another turn or he would have to ignore it and continue taking fire on his other WG squad that was still out of position to charge any of our units. So it only ever died because I decided it was time to sacrifice it for the good of the mission.

    Meanwhile the support dread was firing all game and was never destroyed (it tended to get stunlocked as well). Hell, outside of the Vindicator, the only vehicle that went down was the Landraider to a first-turn penetration that caused it to explode spectacularly. But one tends to expect that result when engaged by two hammerheads and a couple broadsides. No death-by-a-million-glances to be had in that game.

    Vehicles just feel right in this edition. They are mobile, they are good firing platforms but they are vulnerable to concentrated efforts or engagements in close, built-up terrain. This feels appropriate to me. It isn't how vehicles have been handled for the past few editions but I much prefer this way of doing things to the old way. It makes all vehicles feel worth the points in my army, not just the transports.

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    Re: The Thread for People That Love 6th Edition

    I kinda wish grenades were done slightly different, just using them for the unit inflicted say; 1d2 SX hits on the unit (1 d2 for each model throwing) instead of a blast. Blast is neat, but that only one guy can do it seems odd to me. I imagine Ven Dreads will just get a save applied to them, like Bjorn, funny enough. If not, meh.

    Tanks being consistently USABLE is nice as well, like you're saying. I enjoy being able to shoot most turns, and my passengers rarely being affected. Battlewagons no longer pop on glacnes which is nice. I hated it when I'd be glanced by a melta or lascannon and just explode anyway. Things like the battlewagon got straight up tougher in this edition and their passengers get to shoot! lovely!

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