Black Guardians of Ulthwe

[Seerpath]

I was in the shop the other day, and a more senior veteran player had informed me about Black Guardians of Ulthwe. Now, as we already know the current Eldar codex is overdue for an update, and one thing that has been on my mind is whether or not GW will bring back, or include Black Guardians of Ulthwe as a sort of option for slightly better guardians in the new codex. I have some Ulthwe Guardians, in hopes that it might work like the 'red goes fasta' things with ork vehicles with red paint jobs. I have found a PDF of some rules about how they potentially work, But there are two named characters, or weapons rather, that I do not know what they are.

Thoughts? Speculations? Questions?

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...rike_Force.pdf

[Hendarion]

That's an Apocalypse formation. Check out Apocalypse expansion. Webway Strike and Wraithgate are just special rules attached if you select the shown formation. The only Character I can see is Maugan Ra. Everything else is either normal units or HQ-entries.
I'm not sure many players will go to mix their current Craftworld with units from Craftworld Ulthwé. I wouldn't. At least not to just get a benefit. I do own Ulthwé Guardians though, I first thought they look cool... Now I can't stand 'em anymore

[Seerpath]

Well, I mix some things in for fluff sake. Who's to say my army can't be assisted by Biel-Tan Rangers or Saim Hann Vypers. So, Having a squad of 10 Ulthwe guardians aren't a terrible idea. Pending whether or not they get better rules, they could stand in for Dire Avengers.

[Chrysalis]

I really like the idea of a force based on guardians, like the Black Guard. However, to my mind, defender guardians (because that's mainly what Ulthwe is about) do quite poorly right now. Counting them as Dire Avengers sounds like a good idea. However, I don't see Black Guardians as small units you can add to any craftworld's force like aspect warriors. It's something very specific to Ulthwe, and if another craftworld needs guardians, it should rely on its own civilians.

[Hendarion]

Well, I mix some things in for fluff sake. Who's to say my army can't be assisted by Biel-Tan Rangers or Saim Hann Vypers. So, Having a squad of 10 Ulthwe guardians aren't a terrible idea. Pending whether or not they get better rules, they could stand in for Dire Avengers.

I guess you mean Alaitoc-Rangers.
Nobody says you can't. It is your army and your game afterall. But I guess many Eldar-players would consider that rather unfluffy to see mixed Craftworlds on a table, especially when picking "the best of each Craftworld". No offence, just saying.

[Shamana]

It's something very specific to Ulthwe, and if another craftworld needs guardians, it should rely on its own civilians.

It's specific for Ulthwe when you compare it to the big 5. That's not to say another craftworld might not have embarked on a similar path and boasts a significant amount of guardian veterans. Actually, I kinda consider the wild riders of Saim-Hann black guardian jetbikes of a sort .

[Chrysalis]

The "fluff" problem with Black Guardians is that another craftworld using them would be like: "Hey Ulthwe, we don't won't to use our own civilians as canon fodder, would you mind if we were using yours instead?".

[Shamana]

The "fluff" problem with Black Guardians is that another craftworld using them would be like: "Hey Ulthwe, we don't won't to use our own civilians as canon fodder, would you mind if we were using yours instead?".

Actually, I meant that another craftworld could have an elite guardian corps equivalent to the Black Guardians. You can call them whatever they want, if you use the Ulthwe strike force stats.

And as for having the "Real" black guardians - why not? By the fluff, Ulthwe is the most interventionist craftworld, sticking its nose (and guardians) wherever its seer council determines that it will be useful to the craftworld to. Considering that it has fought alongside the Imperium in the EoT campaign (and likely elsewhere, going by their "saviors and dreaded foes" reputation), there should be absolutely no problems with the Ulthwe force appearing to aid another craftworld in need. Most craftworlds wouldn't really say no to extra trained troops.

[Poseidal]

Use Eldar Corsairs from IA 11, who have almost the same stats as the old Black Guardians did.

[Still Standing]

Actually, I meant that another craftworld could have an elite guardian corps equivalent to the Black Guardians. You can call them whatever they want, if you use the Ulthwe strike force stats.

And as for having the "Real" black guardians - why not? By the fluff, Ulthwe is the most interventionist craftworld, sticking its nose (and guardians) wherever its seer council determines that it will be useful to the craftworld to. Considering that it has fought alongside the Imperium in the EoT campaign (and likely elsewhere, going by their "saviors and dreaded foes" reputation), there should be absolutely no problems with the Ulthwe force appearing to aid another craftworld in need. Most craftworlds wouldn't really say no to extra trained troops.

Except that even Ulthwe would rather send Aspect Warriors to battle than Guardians. Guardians are tools of last resort.

[Grimtuff]

Well, I mix some things in for fluff sake. Who's to say my army can't be assisted by Biel-Tan Rangers or Saim Hann Vypers. So, Having a squad of 10 Ulthwe guardians aren't a terrible idea. Pending whether or not they get better rules, they could stand in for Dire Avengers.

A friend of mine does exactly this. Warlock as a sub for the Exarch (Shimmershield is Conceal ) and you're good to go. Just remember to tell your opponent they're actually DA.

[Firaxin]

In Void Stalker, Black Guardians are described thusly: "The ones with weak projectile rifles and thin armor of black plate and mesh weave--they died like weak children and shot with all the skill expected of any hive-born member drawn from humanity's urban dregs."

[bobafett_h]

There are many ways that GW could include rules for using Black Guardians. The easiest would be to simple have it as an upgrade to the standard Guardians and is available to any Craftworld. Another option would be that a certain Character (eg. Eldrad) or a wargear item that a Character can take unlocks upgraded Guardians. If they want them to remain a specific Black Guardian unit type, perhaps they could end up in the rumoured Mercenaries book and taken as allied Troops.

For the meantime, using Dire Avenger or Eldar Corsair rules are probably the easiest ways to represent them on the table top at the moment. Dark Eldar True Born allies might be another good counts as for them too.

[Sildani]

Actually, given that the original Black Guardians were identical to Guardian Defenders, but with BS4, I'd say standard Warriors would be an excellent stand-in., especially given the increased firepower and range of the splinter rifle/heavy weapon.

[OgreBattle]

They just seem unnecessary
Imagine if Cadian White Shields were bs3, but all other conscripts are bs2. Only cadians get bs3 conscripts... alongside bs3 platoons and bs4 veterans

Ulthwe is a major craftworld, having a lot of psykers shouldn't mean that out of their populations of millions, they do not have enough Dire Avengers to field 20 in a conflict involving the Farseer.
Even in Ulthwe's fluff, when Eldrad met the Cadian big boss guy (who has his partner that yells loud) his bodyguard was Dire Avengers, because those guy are actually pro soldiers.

I could see future codex doing it like this though

TROOPS
Guardians: arrange them as storm or defender and get your weapons platform
Avengers
Outcast: bs4, option of various gear, including sniper rifle, cloaks or jetpacks, ride in a venom, etc.

ELITE
-Pathfinder

[Shamana]

Except that even Ulthwe would rather send Aspect Warriors to battle than Guardians. Guardians are tools of last resort.

Sure, it would rather use aspects if it had enough for its purposes. However, it uses guardians in most conflicts, and thus its guardians get quite a bit more combat experience and training than those of most other craftworlds. "Last resort" is a tricky concept when you are hanging on for dear life in a universe where near everything wants to kill you or worse .

And sure, Avengers are better, and Eldrad can certainly have two escorting him. But when you have 10,000 available and need an army of 100,000, well...

[Poseidal]

The Craftworld lists in 3rd were kind of silly. The Craftworlds scope should allow you to field what you want, rather than following on from a general philosophy of Warfare each Craftworld uses.

It was sort of a compensation from 2nd ed armies, where everything that wasn't a vehicle or character (or harlequin, but they were mini allies anyway) was 'Troops', so you could have an all-Striking Scorpions army then, led by Karandras if you wanted.