Well spotted, but it is the rules for shooting and War Machines shoot. War Machines have no rules which allow them to ignore all shooting rules starting on page 38, they just have additional shooting rules. Rules for a unit type does not supersede the rules for shooting if that unit type wants to shoot. Its like saying: I have an infantry model with a bow with some unique shooting rules, does this allow me to ignore all shooting rules not mentioned in my bows' description?
"This section covers the shooting rules for common weapons and the majority of troop types. War machines and other, more peculiar, devices of destruction are covered in their own chapter (begining on page 108)"
Seems rather clear to me.
You should finish that quote with the entire paragraph...
"However, even the collosal trebuchet is governed by many of the same rules as the humble bow and arrow, so its worth reading through this section before unlimbering your cannon or organ gun"
So? all it is saying is that some rules are similar.
Rules that the warmachine section uses that are also in the shooting section:
-Maximum and minimum ranges
-Shooting into combat
-To hit penalties (for bolt throwers)
-Panic from casulaties
-Hits inflicting multiple wounds
All those are specified and explained in the warmachine section but also explained in more detail in the shooting section. That is all it is refering to.
The full paragraph goes:
"This section covers the shooting rules for common weapons and the majority of troop types. War machines and other, more peculiar, devices of destruction are covered in their own chapter (begining on page 108). However, even the collosal trebuchet is governed by many of the same rules as the humble bow and arrow, so its worth reading through this section before unlimbering your cannon or organ gun."
-The section covers common weapons and most troops types
-Warmachines and other peculiar devices are not included in this
-They are covered under their own section
-However, these weapons still have some similar rules
-So its is worth reading these rules to better undertsand the warmachine specific ones
It is very specifically saying that the normal shooting rules dont apply to warmachines.
Shooting, starting on page 38 - Basic Rules
War Machines, starting on page 108 - Advanced rules.
I seem to have missed why this is important. A bolt thrower uses largely normal BS rules, but it still is covered by the "shooting with war machines" rules like slow to fire, move or fire and pivot.
I can upgrade my soul grinder to have a bolt thrower. Presumably I can't stand and shoot with it? But if the slow to fire rule from "shooting with war machines" applies, wouldn't the pivot rule?
... and then I won.
I see a lot of folks trying to get this all or none mentality regarding things that can "shoot like::insert war machine here:::". Resolve shots taken like the described war machine. Remember to note which rules are part shooting like a war machine (whichever one), and which ones you get because of unit type. Anyway, my best answer is play it how you and your opponent can agree. I see this topic is highly divided and it will probably stay that way without a FAQ to clarify.
8th Edition Record W/L/D
Warriors of Chaos: 18/9/3
Dwarfs: 4/4/2Vampire Counts: 3/2/1Dark Angels: 0/4/0
This is probably the last i'!l say on the matter, good luck with the debate.
Maybe I missed something but has no one mentioned that if the Hellcannon can't pivot then it could almost never fire? If it cannon move and fire and even a pivot is a move then it would have to take a full turn to line up and then hope that the next turn the enemy was still lined up. That or it never needs to pivot, thus can fire in a 360 degree arch without having to turn. I has to be one or the other. There is no way they would expect it to use up a full turn to line up to a target that could easily move away.
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∞+1 (just because I can).
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It seems like all the technicalities have already been aired, which is normally my favourite part of a rules discussion on the forums.
On the table, however, I fire mine the same as I do for my OnG rock lobbers. All the way from selecting my target to rolling to wound. When rolling with friends at home sometimes it's better to just grab some more beers/tea and snacks rather than get bogged down in the details.
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This hellcannon debate also applies to cygors and arachnarok flingers correct?(monsters that fire like stne throwers)
Assuming they follow all the rules for throwers incl the pivot.... Then they can move up, turn 180 degrees and fire backwards correct?